Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Not necessarily. There are many instances of vehicles being rebuilt with new components after a wreck. In CA, you are required to have a bonded agent inspect the reconstructed vehicle to ensure the VIN on the old vehicle matches the one on the new one. And the original VIN-stamping area is supposed to be removed and destroyed.

Here's a prime example of exactly what is being described. This car was nothing but a piece of a frame with a serial number. The rest is a "reconstruction".

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...REATION-249541

Google "maserati birdcage" for lots more info.

[CompClassics]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Here's a prime example of exactly what is being described. This car was nothing but a piece of a frame with a serial number. The rest is a "reconstruction".

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...REATION-249541

Google "maserati birdcage" for lots more info.

This isn’t even a partial frame with a VIN number, this is just paperwork with a newly built chassis and body.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[USC_COWBOY]

Sounds rather fishy to me, opens the door to fantastic frauds. I'm feeling like I/m in the midst of such a legless scheme, JMHO

The feds refer to this as "Title Washing". an is considered a felony offense. Who is ready to reside in the Gray Bar Hotel??

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

So what you are telling me is that I could take a brand new build and add some original 1960s paperwork and have a legitimate 1960s Cobra? Wouldn’t this be considered fraud?

Please re-read post #81 above.

[1ntCobra]

So does anyone know what happened to the original 2/3 frame with the serial number on it? Does it still exist? Or maybe when the car currently in Europe was created they destroyed the old frame?

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[peterpjb]

amazingly the 2008 and the 2019 registries tell completely different stories about 2049, being curios which story the 2029 edition will tell....

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

amazingly the 2008 and the 2019 registries tell completely different stories about 2049, being curios which story the 2029 edition will tell....

Looks as if you're late to the conversation. You obviously missed post #44 entirely.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Looks as if you're late to the conversation. You obviously missed post #44 entirely.

I missed that post obviously , sorry for crashing the party

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

amazingly the 2008 and the 2019 registries tell completely different stories about 2049, being curios which story the 2029 edition will tell....

I had pointed out that the 1987 and 2008 registries told different stories too.

However from following this thread, it seems that the guy who has the title, does not have the original frame and most likely has no other parts from the original car left, so what exactly will make his eventual "restoration" of CSX 2049 worth any more than the car in Europe, which did not use any part of the original frame either?

In the end, if the guy with the title is really just going to do is buy a Kirham (or an AC Brooklands or something similar) and "restore" that into CSX 2049 with his title, I am not really sure that is really worth any more than having a really nice Cobra replica without the CSX 2049 serial number. I guess someone will be willing to pay a bit of a premium for the serial number attached to a nice replica, but how much of a premium would someone pay?

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I had pointed out that the 1987 and 2008 registries told different stories too.

However from following this thread, it seems that the guy who has the title, does not have the original frame and most likely has no other parts from the original car left, so what exactly will make his eventual "restoration" of CSX 2049 worth any more than the car in Europe, which did not use any part of the original frame either?

In the end, if the guy with the title is really just going to do is buy a Kirham (or an AC Brooklands or something similar) and "restore" that into CSX 2049 with his title, I am not really sure that is really worth any more than having a really nice Cobra replica without the CSX 2049 serial number. I guess someone will be willing to pay a bit of a premium for the serial number attached to a nice replica, but how much of a premium would someone pay?

There are original parts being used in the reconstruction. I won't speculate on values, because every car is different and in the end, it's up to the buyers to determine what a car is worth to them.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

The parts that are being used in the new construction are not parts that can be confirmed as having come directly from the original 2049, the engine, the transmission and the differential have both casting numbers and date codes that prove otherwise. Are they original to a Cobra, possibly but nothing other than the differential is Cobra specific. Then again the 4HU Salisbury has been used in several European vehicles. The engine and the transmission are generic Ford parts without any kind of markings that would prove they came from Shelby’s shop. The engine itself is a 289, when 2049 crashed at Willow Springs in November of 1963 it had a 260 with a four barrel Autolite carburetor in it. The 260 race engine would have had numbers and stamping that would have indicate that it was a SAI built competition engine. Are there other parts related to the build that are Cobra specific, yes but those are parts that can not be confirmed to be directly related to or having come from 2049 or it’s timeframe.

Please note that, for practical purposes, I did not specify which parts from the original 2049 are being used in the reconstruction. But yes, there are some.

[Buzz]

There really ought to be a mandatory disclaimer attached to the title of all "air cars" stating: This vehicle is NOT the original car built under this VIN, nor does it contain any of it's significant original chassis, parts or components.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Buzz

There really ought to be a mandatory disclaimer attached to the title of all "air cars" stating: This vehicle is NOT the original car built under this VIN, nor does it contain any of it's significant original chassis, parts or components.

I consider "air-cars" to be those which have no claim whatsoever to the VIN they are claiming. In the case of a car like 2049 where a chain of ownership can be demonstrated, the facts are usually clear as to how it may have been rebuilt and under what circumstances. That, in large part, is why organizations like SAAC exist and what we do our best to properly present in the various Registries.

[USC_COWBOY]

Correction required here....289 not 260 at the time of the crash. Possibility that it was originally a very early Mark I with a 260ci engine used as a SAI publicity car (I have pics that show it) and later equipped with the engine and other mods by SAI and sold to increase the number of privately campaigned cars at the time when SAI needed more cars out there to get classified as a factory team.

[Buzz]

The thing for me - and I do defer to the real experts - is that for a car to be approved to bear the title of a wrecked valuable and collectible original; there should at least be some credible link (that even by a reasonable stretch) demonstrates that a salvageable portion of that car was repaired or rebuilt using some newly remanufactured parts and components. A creatively titled scratch-build or even a Kirkham chassis with some interchangeable pieces or accessory items just doesn't - to me anyway - deserve such a title and the corresponding associated value.

[1985 CCX]

Reasonable to say that CSX2049 lives only in pictures at this juncture. no?

[sunman]

In November Robert D Walkers new book comes out.
Shelby Cobra The Definitive Chassis By Chassis History Of The Mark I
Chapter 10 has CSX2049
46,47,48 and 52 are well known 52 is a survivor owned by the buyers son
How does the chassis in post 33 compare to them?