Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Have you read the Cobra Registry in its entirety?

I haven't even read the Baltimore Catechism in its entirety.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I haven't even read the Baltimore Catechism in its entirety.

Sounds to me as if you are admitting you have no idea what you are talking about when you criticize the club and the Registry.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Sounds to me as if you are admitting you have no idea what you are talking about when you criticize the club and the Registry.

That's because you let your ego get in the way.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's because you let your ego get in the way.

Ah, no. It is because you truly have no idea what you are talking about. I have been collecting data on these cars for roughly 50 years, and the fact that the last leaf-spring Registry was over 400 pages long and the coil-spring one was over 250 suggests we have a huge load of details. When someone comes along and says that we are not being transparent and are withholding information for some unknown reason, it goes without saying...you don't know what you are talking about. Ego has nothing at all to do with it.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

I will add this to my direct knowledge of the parts that were provided by Hasselrig for the building of 2049. When I went to Hasselrig’s shop in Los Angeles to sort through parts for the build I was amazed at the amount of parts that Hasselrig had. There was a box with 2 sets of doors, the CSX # for one of the doors was known as coming from a car that someone had gone on a fishing trip with SAAC as trying to lay claim to in order to claim ownership of, it is documented in the SAAC Registry. There Were many duplicate parts available that were provided for the build. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to see the CSX numbers on the other doors but the one with the CSX number that I do know was provided as one of the parts for the building of 2049, the section of the door frame with the stamp was cut from the original door and grafted into the new door that was provided with the new body / chassis purchase. There are a lot of details that would truly muddy the waters on this seemingly innocent build that I have direct knowledge of but let’s just leave it at this 2049 is dead. Just because you own a title doesn’t mean you own the car.

twobjshelbys,
Investing in the Bitcoin is what honest people would be doing!

I am curious now how you are fitting into all of this. In terms of inspecting parts that Hasselrig has and knowing about the court case, talking to Fran Kress, etc. Did someone hire you to investigate the car that Hasselrig is building? Were you called as an expert witness in the court case? This thread seems to get more tangled as it grows.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

John, you appear to be of the thought that Rick Kopec was somehow involved in the sale of the Fran Kress 2049 to the Netherlands. To my knowledge, he was not. And I have been advised by people who should now that an entirely new chassis was created for that car, and it used rack and pinion steering. That would negate the chance that an original VIN remained on the chassis, as on the early worm and sector cars it was on the steering box bracket which was removed from this car.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

Your comments are becoming moronic.

[USC_COWBOY]

Ned Scudder,

I do appreciate all the work you do in keeping the histories and supporting documentation on our beloved Cobra’s. I have been reading the Leaf Spring Cobra Registry and it definitely qualifies as a “Tome”, kudos to you and the staff.

I would like to point out a couple of possible mistakes in the CSX2049 history as presented:

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Pomona Race dated 7/13-24/1963 Ted Roberts drove #25; I have examined the Race program and it does not show Ted Roberts nor car #25, in fact, it only shows Corvettes and a Ferrari in the class race, not one Cobra.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Times GP GT 1 hour Race, dated 10/13/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Laguna Seca Race, dated 10/19/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Willow Springs Race, dated 11/16/1963 the car was entered by “Powerine Oil”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Oil”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

Also noted was that Albert Abidin sent the Cobra CSX2049 back to Shelby American for extensive upgrades converting it from Street to Full competition status. Listed upgrades were:

Race spec engine, custom fabricated headers, side exit exhausts, engine oil cooler, larger front brake calipers, forward braced roll bar, F/R pin drive wheel hubs, aviation spec hardware for the suspension, etc., rear wheel arch flares, Halibrand “kidney bean” magnesium racing wheels, 15”x6” front and 15”x7” rear Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires, and replace the AC/Shelby emblem with the flat hooded snake emblem.

This is a sizeable work order. May I have a copy of the factory work order, invoicing and costs related to these factory competition modifications?

On 4/13/1964, Ken Grindley wrote a letter to Phil Curry wherein they decided to obtain a “mechanics lien” on the wrecked car, there would have been application paperwork necessary to obtain a “mechanics lien”, and there would have been corresponding correspondence to notify the owner that they were going to be subject to a “mechanics lien”. May I have a copy of the letter, the application paperwork and the correspondence to the owner?

Like yourself, I believe in keeping as complete a record as possible and would like to leave a history on my end that is complete and relevant.

Thank you again for securing and safe-keeping such an extensive history of our beloved Cobras.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Ned Scudder,

I do appreciate all the work you do in keeping the histories and supporting documentation on our beloved Cobra’s. I have been reading the Leaf Spring Cobra Registry and it definitely qualifies as a “Tome”, kudos to you and the staff.

I would like to point out a couple of possible mistakes in the CSX2049 history as presented:

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Pomona Race dated 7/13-24/1963 Ted Roberts drove #25; I have examined the Race program and it does not show Ted Roberts nor car #25, in fact, it only shows Corvettes and a Ferrari in the class race, not one Cobra.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Times GP GT 1 hour Race, dated 10/13/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Laguna Seca Race, dated 10/19/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Willow Springs Race, dated 11/16/1963 the car was entered by “Powerine Oil”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Oil”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

Also noted was that Albert Abidin sent the Cobra CSX2049 back to Shelby American for extensive upgrades converting it from Street to Full competition status. Listed upgrades were:

Race spec engine, custom fabricated headers, side exit exhausts, engine oil cooler, larger front brake calipers, forward braced roll bar, F/R pin drive wheel hubs, aviation spec hardware for the suspension, etc., rear wheel arch flares, Halibrand “kidney bean” magnesium racing wheels, 15”x6” front and 15”x7” rear Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires, and replace the AC/Shelby emblem with the flat hooded snake emblem.

This is a sizeable work order. May I have a copy of the factory work order, invoicing and costs related to these factory competition modifications?

On 4/13/1964, Ken Grindley wrote a letter to Phil Curry wherein they decided to obtain a “mechanics lien” on the wrecked car, there would have been application paperwork necessary to obtain a “mechanics lien”, and there would have been corresponding correspondence to notify the owner that they were going to be subject to a “mechanics lien”. May I have a copy of the letter, the application paperwork and the correspondence to the owner?

Like yourself, I believe in keeping as complete a record as possible and would like to leave a history on my end that is complete and relevant.

Thank you again for securing and safe-keeping such an extensive history of our beloved Cobras.

Hi, Michael - I hope you will allow me to tackle your questions roughly in order.

For the various races you mention, I took the car numbers and race results from whichever copy of the fun old publication "Competition Press," later called "Autoweek," they would have been in. My thinking is that a race program would have been submitted to the printers a few days ahead of any race, and perhaps not all the entries that eventually showed up were listed. Did they get it right? We will likely never know at this point. Sadly, I threw out all my old copies of the paper in a move many years ago.

Regarding the Times GP where Muth Ford was shown as a sponsor instead of Powerine Fuel: is is possible that may have been more than one sponsor, and they listed one over another? I can't say if the data is correct or incorrect at this point, but it is whatever was shown in the race summary after the event. Ditto for the next event you mention, where I suspect you want to say Powerine Fuel vs. Powerine Oil. In spite of which sponsor may have been listed, I'm not sure it carries too much relevance given the larger picture of where things are today.

Regarding the modifications said to have been made to 2049 at Shelby American, we have no paperwork on these. What was listed was how the car was prepared based on photographs taken at the events as well as how the car was equipped when it was crashed. It is my understanding that Al or Ann Abiden explained to Lanse Hasselrig when they were discussing his purchase of the wrecked car that the modifications had been performed at Shelby American. I would very much like to have a copy of that invoice, as it would likely show the owner as the party to be billed for the work, but it was not in the files we recovered.

I am appending a copy of the letter in the files from Ken Grindley, the Shelby American controller, to Phil Curry regarding a mechanic's lien. I have no idea who Curry is nor why the letter was directed to him. And it is unfortunate that the original letter with the Shelby American logo was sent out and all that was in the files is a copy, but it's better than nothing. Too bad that once again, there is no mention of an owner.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Hi, Michael - I hope you will allow me to tackle your questions roughly in order.

For the various races you mention, I took the car numbers and race results from whichever copy of the fun old publication "Competition Press," later called "Autoweek," they would have been in. My thinking is that a race program would have been submitted to the printers a few days ahead of any race, and perhaps not all the entries that eventually showed up were listed. Did they get it right? We will likely never know at this point. Sadly, I threw out all my old copies of the paper in a move many years ago.

Regarding the Times GP where Muth Ford was shown as a sponsor instead of Powerine Fuel: is is possible that may have been more than one sponsor, and they listed one over another? I can't say if the data is correct or incorrect at this point, but it is whatever was shown in the race summary after the event. Ditto for the next event you mention, where I suspect you want to say Powerine Fuel vs. Powerine Oil. In spite of which sponsor may have been listed, I'm not sure it carries too much relevance given the larger picture of where things are today.

Regarding the modifications said to have been made to 2049 at Shelby American, we have no paperwork on these. What was listed was how the car was prepared based on photographs taken at the events as well as how the car was equipped when it was crashed. It is my understanding that Al or Ann Abiden explained to Lanse Hasselrig when they were discussing his purchase of the wrecked car that the modifications had been performed at Shelby American. I would very much like to have a copy of that invoice, as it would likely show the owner as the party to be billed for the work, but it was not in the files we recovered.

I am appending a copy of the letter in the files from Ken Grindley, the Shelby American controller, to Phil Curry regarding a mechanic's lien. I have no idea who Curry is nor why the letter was directed to him. And it is unfortunate that the original letter with the Shelby American logo was sent out and all that was in the files is a copy, but it's better than nothing. Too bad that once again, there is no mention of an owner.

Ned,

I have digital copies of the Competition Press Volumes 1 through 20 if you are interested.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Hi, Michael - I hope you will allow me to tackle your questions roughly in order.

For the various races you mention, I took the car numbers and race results from whichever copy of the fun old publication "Competition Press," later called "Autoweek," they would have been in. My thinking is that a race program would have been submitted to the printers a few days ahead of any race, and perhaps not all the entries that eventually showed up were listed. Did they get it right? We will likely never know at this point. Sadly, I threw out all my old copies of the paper in a move many years ago.

Regarding the Times GP where Muth Ford was shown as a sponsor instead of Powerine Fuel: is is possible that may have been more than one sponsor, and they listed one over another? I can't say if the data is correct or incorrect at this point, but it is whatever was shown in the race summary after the event. Ditto for the next event you mention, where I suspect you want to say Powerine Fuel vs. Powerine Oil. In spite of which sponsor may have been listed, I'm not sure it carries too much relevance given the larger picture of where things are today.

Regarding the modifications said to have been made to 2049 at Shelby American, we have no paperwork on these. What was listed was how the car was prepared based on photographs taken at the events as well as how the car was equipped when it was crashed. It is my understanding that Al or Ann Abiden explained to Lanse Hasselrig when they were discussing his purchase of the wrecked car that the modifications had been performed at Shelby American. I would very much like to have a copy of that invoice, as it would likely show the owner as the party to be billed for the work, but it was not in the files we recovered.

I am appending a copy of the letter in the files from Ken Grindley, the Shelby American controller, to Phil Curry regarding a mechanic's lien. I have no idea who Curry is nor why the letter was directed to him. And it is unfortunate that the original letter with the Shelby American logo was sent out and all that was in the files is a copy, but it's better than nothing. Too bad that once again, there is no mention of an owner.

Does this mean that Phil H Curry was a director for California Cartage Company at that address?

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

And what is California Cartage Company?

https://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...MenuKey=events

And what is Cartage and Drayage anyway:

https://www.asianausa.com/cartage-drayage-services/

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Does this mean that Phil H Curry was a director for California Cartage Company at that address?

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

And what is California Cartage Company?

https://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...MenuKey=events

And what is Cartage and Drayage anyway:

https://www.asianausa.com/cartage-drayage-services/

The Cartage/Drayage thing seems to be related to international cargo shipments, warehousing and delivery. At first I was thinking that maybe Shelby American had Mr Curry store the car in a warehouse and was tired of paying for him for the storage of the car. But reading the letter again, Shelby American had the wrecked car in their possession.

So why send information from the Department of Motor Vehicles, the bank, the legal owner and wanting to get a mechanics lien to Mr Curry? Maybe with international shipping business angle, they wanted Mr Curry to ship the wreck back to AC cars? That seems highly unlikely. It seems more likely Mr Curry might be familiar with how to fill out the paperwork to get a mechanics lien on a wrecked car that Shelby American considers abandoned at their shop for several months. The letter says that Shelby American knows who the legal owner is. The car has been in their possession for months. It seems logical knowing who the legal owner is, to just ask the legal owner to come and pick up the wreck. Asking the legal owner to pick up the car is both easy and FREE. Getting a mechanics lien involves time and money. Perhaps they had contacted the legal owner on multiple occassions and for whatever reason, the legal owner is not responding, or the legal owner told Shelby American that they don't want or need the wreck back.

Reading the letter, I can see 2 possiblities for contacting Mr Curry:
1) They want Mr Curry to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien.
2) They are getting someone else to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien, but when they have the lien, they want Mr Curry to do something with the wreck.

In any case, it seems the wheels were in motion for Shelby American to get a mechanics lien on the wrecked car. The end result of which would be for Shelby American to take ownership of the car by getting their own title to the car. Shelby American intended to get a title to a wrecked car that seems to be abandoned at their shop.

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

The Cartage/Drayage thing seems to be related to international cargo shipments, warehousing and delivery. At first I was thinking that maybe Shelby American had Mr Curry store the car in a warehouse and was tired of paying for him for the storage of the car. But reading the letter again, Shelby American had the wrecked car in their possession.

So why send information from the Department of Motor Vehicles, the bank, the legal owner and wanting to get a mechanics lien to Mr Curry? Maybe with international shipping business angle, they wanted Mr Curry to ship the wreck back to AC cars? That seems highly unlikely. It seems more likely Mr Curry might be familiar with how to fill out the paperwork to get a mechanics lien on a wrecked car that Shelby American considers abandoned at their shop for several months. The letter says that Shelby American knows who the legal owner is. The car has been in their possession for months. It seems logical knowing who the legal owner is, to just ask the legal owner to come and pick up the wreck. Asking the legal owner to pick up the car is both easy and FREE. Getting a mechanics lien involves time and money. Perhaps they had contacted the legal owner on multiple occassions and for whatever reason, the legal owner is not responding, or the legal owner told Shelby American that they don't want or need the wreck back.

Reading the letter, I can see 2 possiblities for contacting Mr Curry:
1) They want Mr Curry to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien.
2) They are getting someone else to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien, but when they have the lien, they want Mr Curry to do something with the wreck.

In any case, it seems the wheels were in motion for Shelby American to get a mechanics lien on the wrecked car. The end result of which would be for Shelby American to take ownership of the car by getting their own title to the car. Shelby American intended to get a title to a wrecked car that seems to be abandoned at their shop.

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

The Cunningham family was never contacted by Shelby regarding the lien process and therefore we were never able to recover the wreck.

Upon Paul's death, my mom was unconsolable and I became the dominant male in the household at 19 years of age. Several month's later she and my sister moved back to Illinois to be near her mom and dad.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

Interesting speculation, which is mostly what this entire thread is based upon. However, a notarized affidavit exists from Howard Bennett, manager of the building where 2049 was stored, stating that he sold the remains of a car which he knew belonged to one Lanse Haselrig, thinking the bent frame pieces were junk, circa 1977. This is what was eventually sold to Fran Kress and became the basis for the 2049 car that is now in Europe. This is yet another document attesting to Haselrig's ownership of the car, which some of the people continuing to ***** about his non-involvement are aware of. And an owner who has his property stolen from him is legally entitled to take corrective action. Since we can't impose our laws on Europe to regain possession of any original frame pieces used in the build, the alternative is the one the CA courts have already granted, which is to build a new car using the 2049 VIN.

[USC_COWBOY]

Ned,

While you are at it may I have a copy of the Bill of Sale from the SAI sale of CSX2049 to Ann Abidin that has been published and spoken highly of to me and others on the forum?