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  #221 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 09:11 AM
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Here are some good points,

If the car claiming to be 2049 owned by Hart in the Netherlands is not 2049 then what stipulations were made by Curt Vought when he sold the 2049 as to what exactly it was when he sold it? Were any parts from the original chassis utilized during the build that was commissioned by Fran Kress? Having seen other builds by that particular frame builder I know that he has incorporated pieces of the original frame in the construction of a new frame in other builds I have inspected, that would prove lineage To 2049 (especially if VIN stamped parts were used. You can clearly see the frame being sectioned in the photos I posted. If pieces were utilized from the original frame then I would assume you could call it 2049. That being said, would the car owned by Hart in the Netherlands be considered “stolen”? Was there a claim filed with the police that stated that the car had been stolen (I have asked this before)? Would this mean that any body connected with the buying and selling of the chassis or the car be an accessory to the criminal activity of the buying and selling of 2049, especially after the California court case being settled? If this is in fact the story of a stolen car and the location of the car is known then why isn’t the rightful owner pursuing getting the car back? Fran Kress was sued for owning and registering the remains of 2049, why wasn’t the car seized at the end of the court proceedings? Instead 2049 was sold to Curt Vought who vintage raced the car and then ultimately sold the car to Hart? Is this car a unrecoverable stolen vehicle? Why Go through the trouble and expense of buildIng an entirely new car when there is a car out there that has been proven to be part of 2049’s lineage? Why wouldn’t the current owner of the California title buy the car that is known to have been part of 2049s lineage to complete the chain of ownership, rather than building a completely new car? Wouldn’t buying or seizing the car that is for sale be the better thing to do to preserve the lineage of 2049? It’s not like the car was cut up and thrown in the river never to be seen again, everybody knows where 2049 is.

Last edited by CompClassics; 11-12-2021 at 11:35 AM..
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 09:20 AM
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John, you appear to be of the thought that Rick Kopec was somehow involved in the sale of the Fran Kress 2049 to the Netherlands. To my knowledge, he was not. And I have been advised by people who should now that an entirely new chassis was created for that car, and it used rack and pinion steering. That would negate the chance that an original VIN remained on the chassis, as on the early worm and sector cars it was on the steering box bracket which was removed from this car.
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  #223 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 09:46 AM
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Ned,
Fran informed me that he sold 2049 to Curt Vought (not Rick Kopec) and in turn Curt Vought sold the car to Hart, is this not the proper chain of events? Are you saying that Fran sold the car to Hart?
Per the construction of the chassis that Fran commissioned, it clearly shows that the frame is being sectioned, why else would the frame builder section the frame if it wasn’t to use some of the components From the assembly? Why not just scrap the whole thing And start with new?
There were two separate pieces in the photo that had CSX numbers present in the components in the photos, one is the frame stamping on the steering box tower (probably the most significant CSX stamping on any Cobra) the other was on the door frame hinge plate visible in the photos. Without inspecting Hart’s car we really do not know what was or wasn’t used in the construction. There were also unique details to the frame that were done to the frame when it was converted for competition use.
If it can not be proven that any of the original frame pieces were used in the new build then that would mean that 2049 is unrecoverable and lost to history. I would find it very hard to believe that anyone would not utilize a component, such as the steering box tower with a CSX stamping, that would help identify the identity of the car, especially since that sole stamping was the main identifier used on worm and sector Cobras as they did not utilize a VIN plate.

Last edited by CompClassics; 11-12-2021 at 11:51 AM..
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  #224 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 10:03 AM
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I will add this to my direct knowledge of the parts that were provided by Hasselrig for the building of 2049. When I went to Hasselrigís shop in Los Angeles to sort through parts for the build I was amazed at the amount of parts that Hasselrig had. There was a box with 2 sets of doors, the CSX # for one of the doors was known as coming from a car that someone had gone on a fishing trip with SAAC as trying to lay claim to in order to claim ownership of, it is documented in the SAAC Registry. There Were many duplicate parts available that were provided for the build. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to see the CSX numbers on the other doors but the one with the CSX number that I do know was provided as one of the parts for the building of 2049, the section of the door frame with the stamp was cut from the original door and grafted into the new door that was provided with the new body / chassis purchase. There are a lot of details that would truly muddy the waters on this seemingly innocent build that I have direct knowledge of but letís just leave it at this 2049 is dead. Just because you own a title doesnít mean you own the car.

twobjshelbys,
Investing in the Bitcoin is what honest people would be doing!
I am curious now how you are fitting into all of this. In terms of inspecting parts that Hasselrig has and knowing about the court case, talking to Fran Kress, etc. Did someone hire you to investigate the car that Hasselrig is building? Were you called as an expert witness in the court case? This thread seems to get more tangled as it grows.
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  #225 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
I am curious now how you are fitting into all of this. In terms of inspecting parts that Hasselrig has and knowing about the court case, talking to Fran Kress, etc. Did someone hire you to investigate the car that Hasselrig is building? Were you called as an expert witness in the court case? This thread seems to get more tangled as it grows.
I was involved with the researching and building of 2049 for Wesselink all the way up until realizing I would be perjuring myself if I continued with the project and the way it was outlined.

Last edited by CompClassics; 11-12-2021 at 10:40 AM..
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  #226 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
I haven't even read the Baltimore Catechism in its entirety.
Sounds to me as if you are admitting you have no idea what you are talking about when you criticize the club and the Registry.
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 10:43 AM
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Sounds to me as if you are admitting you have no idea what you are talking about when you criticize the club and the Registry.
That's because you let your ego get in the way.
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Old 11-12-2021, 10:52 AM
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Ah. As soon as I saw the name Lance Coren, I knew we were in for a bumpy ride. All I can suggest to Michael is, don't rely on whatever Coren says. Did Lance tell you he attempted to claim 2049 was his many years ago? Did Lance show you the photograph of another Cobra that he claimed was his restored CSX 2049? Did Lance admit that he surrendered his phony CA title to Lanse Hasselrig because the courts made it clear he, not Coren, was the legitimate owner? Probably not. I am aware that Lance Coren saw the remains of Hasselrig's Cobra as well as the 2049 VIN on it at an early SAAC convention, after it had been stolen by the manager of the storage facility where Hasselrig left it. And he was angry, as it cast a shadow on the claim Coren had made that he owned the car. Please do not expect me to accept anything Mr. Coren says, as I have already been down that road way too many times.
Now coming back to this. What is the car that Lance Coren was claiming to be CSX2049? Was it the car that ended up in the Netherlands that Fran Kress had built? Did Lance Coren get it from Fran Kress? Or is Lance Coren's car yet another CSX2049 out there somewhere? I think Ned said that the Kress car had a PA title when sold to the Netherlands, but this post mentions a phony CA title. I am confused about how many phony cars and phony titles there are at this point.

Last edited by 1ntCobra; 11-12-2021 at 10:53 AM.. Reason: sPeling
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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by twobjshelbys View Post
I still can't figure out what the motivation is here. He says he just wants info on his father's history yet I get the nagging feeling there is yet another 2049 slinking around in the shadows. (That car has been proven not to be, and since that one isn't, here's another that must be. But instead of proving it is, it'll be left to SAAC once again to prove that it isn't. If I were looking for a get rich quick scheme I'd turn to bitcoin instead of fakey-doo Cobras.)
I am the he, the stepson of Paul Cunningham, there is no shadow CSX2049 here, the two seem to be in the Netherlands and Encinitas. Since there is very serious financial considerations there may well be another ghost car out there, yet to be revealed.

My dad's race career and CSX2049 history is my interest, correct and true, anything less is unacceptable. The current state of CSX2049 is seriously muddled, it needs to be examined closely and actions need to be undertaken to establish a true and correct history.

I just celebrated my 77th birthday, I am retired, living on my retirement income and in poor health, I would consider myself as being a poor candidate to build a replica or be a restorer.
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:12 AM
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I just celebrated my 77th birthday, I am retired, living on my retirement income and in poor health, I would consider myself as being a poor candidate to build a replica or be a restorer.
The offer for a ride and possibly being able to drive my 289 cobra on a track of my choosing in upstate NY if you are ever out this way is there. Just send me a message if you make it out this way. I would like to help you put a car together, but we are on opposite sides of the country. Good luck.

Just incase you do make it out here, the seats are tight, I only weigh 165 lbs so without knowing you, whether you would fit in the car is up in the air. I have some older racers that have tried getting in my car and it has not always been easy. I don't want to get your hopes up and have you make plans, only to find out that the seats do not fit you.

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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
John, you appear to be of the thought that Rick Kopec was somehow involved in the sale of the Fran Kress 2049 to the Netherlands. To my knowledge, he was not. And I have been advised by people who should now that an entirely new chassis was created for that car, and it used rack and pinion steering. That would negate the chance that an original VIN remained on the chassis, as on the early worm and sector cars it was on the steering box bracket which was removed from this car.
Ned,
You are correct I made a mistake between two people Curt Vought and Rick Kopec, itís been corrected.
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 11:51 AM
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The offer for a ride and possibly being able to drive my 289 cobra on a track of my choosing in upstate NY if you are ever out this way is there. Just send me a message if you make it out this way. I would like to help you put a car together, but we are on opposite sides of the country. Good luck.

Just incase you do make it out here, the seats are tight, I only weigh 165 lbs so without knowing you, whether you would fit in the car is up in the air. I have some older racers that have tried getting in my car and it has not always been easy. I don't want to get your hopes up and have you make plans, only to find out that the seats do not fit you.

Jim
Thank you for your generous offer. I doubt that I will venture out of Southern California but if I happen to do so, I will definitely contact you. You are too kind.

BTW, it was a tight fit when I was involved with our Cobra.

I have been blessed in my life to have been a hardball catcher and an offensive tackle in football, trained and attempted to qualify for the Olympics in 1960 and 1964, the cost to me, my knees and low back. Two new knees and I'm still getting around.

Thinking back, I'd change nothing, some of the greatest life lessons were learned through sports. Desire, Dedication, Commitment, Team Concepts, and humility just to name a few.

Stay safe and enjoy your toys.
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Old 11-12-2021, 12:34 PM
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Well we have a little bit in common, I trained and tried out for the 1984 Winter Olympics.
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 01:47 PM
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Well we have a little bit in common, I trained and tried out for the 1984 Winter Olympics.
What sport/event?

My sport was Speed Skating, I'm a big guy so I wasn't very good at sprints except for falling in turns and taking out opponents in short track competition. My size/muscle structure was an advantage in the distance events on the long track (400M), 800M, 1500M, 5000M, 10000M.

I dry land trained in the up/down terrain in a arroyo leading up to the famous Rose Bowl near Pasadena CA. One circuit was about 5 miles, I could do a circuit in just under 30 minutes, great for building up leg strength, in the gym I would leg press multiple reps at 750lbs.

My speed skating club (Paramount Rink) was built by Zamboni, the company that built all the ice-surfacing equipment/machines. Two of my speed skating team mates Bill Disney and Stan Fail both medaled, I could beat them periodically but I was not consistent, so that eliminated me during the trials/qualification competitions.

Great memories!
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Old 11-12-2021, 02:41 PM
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That's because you let your ego get in the way.
Ah, no. It is because you truly have no idea what you are talking about. I have been collecting data on these cars for roughly 50 years, and the fact that the last leaf-spring Registry was over 400 pages long and the coil-spring one was over 250 suggests we have a huge load of details. When someone comes along and says that we are not being transparent and are withholding information for some unknown reason, it goes without saying...you don't know what you are talking about. Ego has nothing at all to do with it.
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Old 11-12-2021, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
Now coming back to this. What is the car that Lance Coren was claiming to be CSX2049? Was it the car that ended up in the Netherlands that Fran Kress had built? Did Lance Coren get it from Fran Kress? Or is Lance Coren's car yet another CSX2049 out there somewhere? I think Ned said that the Kress car had a PA title when sold to the Netherlands, but this post mentions a phony CA title. I am confused about how many phony cars and phony titles there are at this point.
Lance Coren claimed to own CSX 2049 and sent us a photograph of it. However the photo was actually that of CSX 2147. I still have it, complete with Lance's address stamp on the back. He actually owned nothing but a bogus title he managed to obtain by submitting phony facts to the CA DMV. He relinquished it when they started asking questions. There is only one legitimate title to the car, and it is the one listing Lanse Hasselrig of CA, who is the same individual who was pictured in the photos taken in 1967 when the wrecked car was sold.
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Old 11-12-2021, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
I have been collecting data on these cars for roughly 50 years, and the fact that the last leaf-spring Registry was over 400 pages long and the coli-spring one was over 250 suggests we have a huge load of details.
Read your post again. If you really believe that ego has nothing to do with it then you are only fooling yourself.
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Old 11-12-2021, 03:25 PM
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Your comments are becoming moronic.
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Old 11-12-2021, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
What sport/event?

My sport was Speed Skating, I'm a big guy so I wasn't very good at sprints except for falling in turns and taking out opponents in short track competition. My size/muscle structure was an advantage in the distance events on the long track (400M), 800M, 1500M, 5000M, 10000M.

I dry land trained in the up/down terrain in a arroyo leading up to the famous Rose Bowl near Pasadena CA. One circuit was about 5 miles, I could do a circuit in just under 30 minutes, great for building up leg strength, in the gym I would leg press multiple reps at 750lbs.

My speed skating club (Paramount Rink) was built by Zamboni, the company that built all the ice-surfacing equipment/machines. Two of my speed skating team mates Bill Disney and Stan Fail both medaled, I could beat them periodically but I was not consistent, so that eliminated me during the trials/qualification competitions.

Great memories!
Yes it was fun. I was able to stay at the Olympic Training Complex in Lake Placid. My sport was Nordic Skiing, but I was a late bloomer to it. They did not have cross country skiing programs in school or where I went to college. Did not start cross country skiing until my senior year under grad. My skill level was not there, and I knew it, but hoped that my athletic skills would impress them and they would take me on as a developmental project. I was fast both in sprints and distance and at 5' 10" could get above a basketball rim. It was a wonderful experience that I will always cherish. Would not have mattered if I did make the team, the USSR had invaded Afghanistan a few months prior to the winter olympics and the olympics were in Russia, so the US boycotted them.
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Old 11-13-2021, 03:55 PM
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Ned Scudder,

I do appreciate all the work you do in keeping the histories and supporting documentation on our beloved Cobra’s. I have been reading the Leaf Spring Cobra Registry and it definitely qualifies as a “Tome”, kudos to you and the staff.

I would like to point out a couple of possible mistakes in the CSX2049 history as presented:

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Pomona Race dated 7/13-24/1963 Ted Roberts drove #25; I have examined the Race program and it does not show Ted Roberts nor car #25, in fact, it only shows Corvettes and a Ferrari in the class race, not one Cobra.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Times GP GT 1 hour Race, dated 10/13/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Laguna Seca Race, dated 10/19/1963 the car was sponsored by “Muth Ford”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Fuel”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

In the race history of the car, it states that in the Willow Springs Race, dated 11/16/1963 the car was entered by “Powerine Oil”; not so, it was sponsored by “Powerine Oil”. Driver and entrant was Paul Cunningham.

Also noted was that Albert Abidin sent the Cobra CSX2049 back to Shelby American for extensive upgrades converting it from Street to Full competition status. Listed upgrades were:

Race spec engine, custom fabricated headers, side exit exhausts, engine oil cooler, larger front brake calipers, forward braced roll bar, F/R pin drive wheel hubs, aviation spec hardware for the suspension, etc., rear wheel arch flares, Halibrand “kidney bean” magnesium racing wheels, 15”x6” front and 15”x7” rear Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires, and replace the AC/Shelby emblem with the flat hooded snake emblem.

This is a sizeable work order. May I have a copy of the factory work order, invoicing and costs related to these factory competition modifications?

On 4/13/1964, Ken Grindley wrote a letter to Phil Curry wherein they decided to obtain a “mechanics lien” on the wrecked car, there would have been application paperwork necessary to obtain a “mechanics lien”, and there would have been corresponding correspondence to notify the owner that they were going to be subject to a “mechanics lien”. May I have a copy of the letter, the application paperwork and the correspondence to the owner?

Like yourself, I believe in keeping as complete a record as possible and would like to leave a history on my end that is complete and relevant.

Thank you again for securing and safe-keeping such an extensive history of our beloved Cobras.
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