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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
I think you are a bit confused as to a modern "aluminum body option" for the SPF as most of those are sourced from Kirkham as CSX series cars and not SPF series cars.
Although, there are one or two, maybe even three that were discussed here years ago.

Aluminum body?

Bill S.
Bill,

In post #190, CompClassics mentioned the aluminum body option, which I assumed meant on an SPF.

I was just curious what an aluminum SPF might cost, but I suspect that such a car might actually start as body and frame shipped from Kirkham's Poland factory and finished in South Africa with SPF parts. If such a thing is still an option, it would be interesting to see what it might cost. From another thread here and on facebook, it seems that if you want to build a brand new Kirkham today that it will likely be over $200K, and most likely approaching $300K. Perhaps an aluminum body SPF might be more reasonably priced. I am not in the market for Cobra with both of my kids in college now, so I guess the price does not matter to me. But it seems that USC_COWBOY has some interest in having a replica of his father's car, but I don't know if a Fiberglass SPF or aluminum SPF would be a feasible expense for him.

Last edited by 1ntCobra; 11-11-2021 at 12:43 PM.. Reason: sPeling
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 01:29 PM
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SPF does not build catalog alloy body cars. They have built some specials or prototypes. I was offered a in-house built alloy Daytona Coupe before the program was turned over to Shelby as the CSX9000 series. It was consigned by a person who surrendered a sizeable deposit and I could have bought it while still in progress for about 200K with power train installed. Instead I got the Ford GT because my wife, who hated the Cobra, didn't like the Coupe because it was "just a cobra with a hard top". Of course it had air conditioning, regular seat belts, etc but that didn't matter . The car has since sold for considerably more.
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Last edited by twobjshelbys; 11-11-2021 at 01:45 PM..
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 05:14 PM
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Question for all....

What involvement did SAAC management have in the final disposition of the Air-Car claiming CSX2049 that is currently in the Netherlands? Who, what where when and how?
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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Question for all....

What involvement did SAAC management have in the final disposition of the Air-Car claiming CSX2049 that is currently in the Netherlands? Who, what where when and how?
That would be a question for them, not us.

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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
That would be a question for them, not us.

Bill S.
Why is that? We group speak on everything else. Why is it that whenever a question arises regarding SAAC or the management thereof is under the microscope, spines melt?

I am sure there are other discussions that have occurred and information is already public.
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:17 PM
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Does anyone know what the real chassis number is for the Air-Car owned by Hart in the Netherlands?
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Why is that? We group speak on everything else. Why is it that whenever a question arises regarding SAAC or the management thereof is under the microscope, spines melt?

I am sure there are other discussions that have occurred and information is already public.
When you say "SAAC management", it sounds like SAAC is a fairly large business. But it seems to me that its probably more of an enthusiast hobby for the people in charge and they must have real day jobs to pay their bills. There are a few thousand members and the annual membership fee is $50. Is the annual membership dues collected from all members enough to pay a single person's annual salary after you take out all the expenses for the annual magazine, running the website, etc. I don't know. It seems that registrars like Ned are doing this more for their passion for the cars than getting a few bucks out of it.

Anyway, outside of SAAC, it seems that CompClassics has some information on the lawsuit that got the title back to the guy who apparently bought the wreck. Maybe he knows that timeframe of when the lawsuit took place?
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Why is it that whenever a question arises regarding SAAC or the management thereof is under the microscope, spines melt?
It is a turf/control/transparency issue. When it's your turf, and you have control over it, you discourage transparency. Transparency has the potential of disclosing things you don't want others to see while having little upside of increasing your turf and control. It's the nature of business, and most things in life are basically business.
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Does anyone know what the real chassis number is for the Air-Car owned by Hart in the Netherlands?
Well the people in the Netherlands seem to still call the car CSX2049, so maybe they still have it registered with that number even though it would be a duplicate number? I don't know. It is possible that they were forced to change the serial number if they had to surrender the title, but I am just speculating here.
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 07:46 PM
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It is a turf/control/transparency issue. When it's your turf, and you have control over it, you discourage transparency. Transparency has the potential of disclosing things you don't want others to see while having little upside of increasing your turf and control. It's the nature of business, and most things in life are basically business.
So....when it's to your personal advantage you clam up and when it is not, you seek transparency.

I would think that we all could benefit from some transparency and not linger in the shadows. Ha! JMHO
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Why is that? We group speak on everything else. Why is it that whenever a question arises regarding SAAC or the management thereof is under the microscope, spines melt?

I am sure there are other discussions that have occurred and information is already public.
"WE" are a group of enthusiasts, yes, some of us are SAAC members, but "WE" are not "SAAC MANAGEMENT". Those that manage the club, or as they are known, the board of directors of SAAC, are not us, and we are not them. Hence my original response that you should ask them.

Perhaps:

http://www.saac.com
or
saacforum.com


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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
So....when it's to your personal advantage you clam up and when it is not, you seek transparency.
No, you feign transparency.
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2021, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
When you say "SAAC management", it sounds like SAAC is a fairly large business. But it seems to me that its probably more of an enthusiast hobby for the people in charge and they must have real day jobs to pay their bills. There are a few thousand members and the annual membership fee is $50. Is the annual membership dues collected from all members enough to pay a single person's annual salary after you take out all the expenses for the annual magazine, running the website, etc. I don't know. It seems that registrars like Ned are doing this more for their passion for the cars than getting a few bucks out of it.

Anyway, outside of SAAC, it seems that CompClassics has some information on the lawsuit that got the title back to the guy who apparently bought the wreck. Maybe he knows that timeframe of when the lawsuit took place?
The current owner of the paperwork bought the paperwork and some various Cobra parts, none of which can be directly linked to 2049, most casting numbers and date codes reflect parts that were produced after the fact. Per the lawsuit timeline I would have to check for the dates, the court paperwork was filed in July of 1992, a new frame and bodywork were purchased after the completion of the lawsuit as I have copies of the purchase invoice.

Last edited by CompClassics; 11-11-2021 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Why is that? We group speak on everything else. Why is it that whenever a question arises regarding SAAC or the management thereof is under the microscope, spines melt?

I am sure there are other discussions that have occurred and information is already public.
No spine-melting here. The car sold to the Netherlands as 2049 (a) had no parts of the original car and (b) was based upon parts that were stolen from Lanse Hasselrig, even though they ended up being tossed out. In as much as they were stolen, there was no legal passing of title. Hence we determined the car in the Netherlands was NOT legally 2049. But because a PA title accompanied the car, the new owner claimed the VIN. Authorities in the US do not recognize it as legitimate and have validated the title of the former owner in CA.
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  #215 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 07:46 AM
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No, you feign transparency.
You are making some interesting comments here, Patrick T. I challenge you to cite specifics. No one at SAAC or with the Registry is hiding a damn thing.
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 08:01 AM
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I still can't figure out what the motivation is here. He says he just wants info on his father's history yet I get the nagging feeling there is yet another 2049 slinking around in the shadows. (That car has been proven not to be, and since that one isn't, here's another that must be. But instead of proving it is, it'll be left to SAAC once again to prove that it isn't. If I were looking for a get rich quick scheme I'd turn to bitcoin instead of fakey-doo Cobras.)
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2021, 08:22 AM
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You are making some interesting comments here, Patrick T. I challenge you to cite specifics. No one at SAAC or with the Registry is hiding a damn thing.
Well, if you represent to me that SAAC, and its members, pass on 100% of each Cobra's build specifications, techniques, and unusual indicia, along with 100% of each car's lineage, and hold back absolutely nothing, for any reason, then I will take you at your word. But, if the response to that is anything other than "yes," then we are just arguing degrees of opaqueness.
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Old 11-12-2021, 08:37 AM
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Much as we'd like to be "all-knowing," we aren't. And while I can't speak for all SAAC members (did you honestly believe I could do that??) I can represent to you that I, as a SAAC Registrar, do in fact pass along everything that we know about any given car. Is it always 100%? No, because many of the details about a car's build are insignificant. But what we know about ownership and any peculiarities in its history are plainly laid out. Have you read the Cobra Registry in its entirety?
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Old 11-12-2021, 08:40 AM
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Have you read the Cobra Registry in its entirety?
I haven't even read the Baltimore Catechism in its entirety.
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Old 11-12-2021, 08:54 AM
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I will add this to my direct knowledge of the parts that were provided by Hasselrig for the building of 2049. When I went to Hasselrig’s shop in Los Angeles to sort through parts for the build I was amazed at the amount of parts that Hasselrig had. There was a box with 2 sets of doors, the CSX # for one of the doors was known as coming from a car that someone had gone on a fishing trip with SAAC as trying to lay claim to in order to claim ownership of, it is documented in the SAAC Registry. There Were many duplicate parts available that were provided for the build. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to see the CSX numbers on the other doors but the one with the CSX number that I do know was provided as one of the parts for the building of 2049, the section of the door frame with the stamp was cut from the original door and grafted into the new door that was provided with the new body / chassis purchase. There are a lot of details that would truly muddy the waters on this seemingly innocent build that I have direct knowledge of but let’s just leave it at this 2049 is dead. Just because you own a title doesn’t mean you own the car.

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Last edited by CompClassics; 11-12-2021 at 08:59 AM..
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