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  #401 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2021, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALF View Post
Did you ever try it?
I assume NO.
Twice:

a 1972 Mustang convertible in 2014
a 1968 Shelby GT 500 fastback in 2016

Both came back that they could not find the records in their archives.

Both cars were original family cars, both had their original black plates on them.

Go figure.

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  #402 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
Twice:

a 1972 Mustang convertible in 2014
a 1968 Shelby GT 500 fastback in 2016

Both came back that they could not find the records in their archives.

Both cars were original family cars, both had their original black plates on them.

Go figure.

Bill S.

Hi Bill,

In California the transition from black & yellow plates to blue & yellow plates happened right around 1970.

If the GT500 was licensed in Calif when new in '68, it would have had a black and yellow plate (3 letters & 3 numbers). If the '72 Mustang was licensed in Calif when new in '72, it should have had a blue and yellow plate (3 numbers & 3 letters).

I have a car that was issued a black plate in July of '69 and it starts with a 'Z'. Had another car licensed in '72 with a blue plate and it started with an 'F'.

Some people have painted blue plates black or perhaps someone put a black plate on the '72 Mustang that you had, but that would not have been the norm.

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  #403 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tkb289 View Post
Hi Bill,

In California the transition from black & yellow plates to blue & yellow plates happened right around 1970.

If the GT500 was licensed in Calif when new in '68, it would have had a black and yellow plate (3 letters & 3 numbers). If the '72 Mustang was licensed in Calif when new in '72, it should have had a blue and yellow plate (3 numbers & 3 letters).

I have a car that was issued a black plate in July of '69 and it starts with a 'Z'. Had another car licensed in '72 with a blue plate and it started with an 'F'.

Some people have painted blue plates black or perhaps someone put a black plate on the '72 Mustang that you had, but that would not have been the norm.

- Tim
Here in Pennsylvania, it is possible to move an old plate to a new car. For example, I have sold an older car, took the plate off of it and then transferred that plate onto the next car I bought. I guess I might have saved a few bucks that way, but for all I know it might cost the same regardless of reusing the old plate or getting a new one. Anyway, you don't have to get a new plate in Pennsylvania when you purchase a car. It could be that California allows the same thing.
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  #404 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
It could be that California allows the same thing.
It is my understanding and experience that the plate is assigned to the car in California. Whether you can transfer them is unknown to me. I would assume a custom plate you could.


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  #405 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 08:35 AM
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Returning to the subject of the original thread...

It's interesting to play guessing games with the DMV paperwork. But why would Lanse Hasselrig want to obtain a registration for 2049? It was wrecked and undriveable, so why pay for license plates? The paper shown says it's a registration, but it also says "Vehicle not currently registered." Hence it may be a change of ownership document, as it lists both the registered owner (Haselrig) as well as the lienholder (Abiden). Given the indicated fees paid on the document, just $2, it appears to me to be a simple change of registered ownership with the state, which might explain why it looks different from a typical registration document.

Meanwhile, with the assistance of some friends with sharp computer skills, we have uncovered some new details about the early life of 2049. Here is a synopsis of the brief article from the Los Angeles Evening Citizen News from April 19, 1963:

"Private car entered in Pomona race - Can a guy take his private car off the street and race against the factory-built jobs? Al Abidin, 22-year-old Riverside enthusiast, is going to find out at the Pomona road races tomorrow and Sunday. He astonished race officials this week by entering his Shelby AC Cobra in the two-day meet and getting Ron Bucknum, West Coast driver of the year last season, to handle it for him."

As it turned out, Bucknum was already signed to drive "Ol Yaller III" so Abiden hired Ted Roberts to drive instead. And a photo has been located through vintage sports car photographer Allen Kuhn of CSX 2049 at the Pomona races in April, as #105, just as the race results in the Registry suggest. It's interesting to note that the car is still on wire wheels with stock flares, and shows some damage to the right rear wheel opening:
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  #406 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 08:41 AM
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Following up on the April Pomona races, photographer Allen Kuhn also has a shot of 2049, now with modified rear flares, running at the July Pomona races with early "kidney-bean" Halibrand wheels. It is again Ted Roberts driving, as #25a:
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  #407 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:07 AM
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Taken directly from court documents, and we know this is absolutely NOT TRUE....
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Last edited by CompClassics; 12-01-2021 at 10:14 AM..
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  #408 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:09 AM
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Good info, Ned - and to put another cap on the original issue, here is an article that quotes the OP here in his own words describing his stepfather's racing career up to his tragic death:
PaulCunningham

He discusses Cunningham driving several cars owned by others, but it is this paragraph - in his own words - where he makes reference to the Cobra that puts this whole ownership issue to bed:

Quote:
He drove many different cars over his shortened career, Sprite, AH 100, the 'Terrible Tempest', several Devins including the mystery car #37, the Kurtis-Pontiac #37, a private owned Ford Cobra (Campaigned against the team Cobra's) and I'm sure there were others I can't remember due to my higher interest in girls during that era.
Clearly, there's been a change in the OP, Michael Heinecke's recollection of events, but it looks like we can safely (and a bit sadly, I have to admit) conclude that Paul Cunningham NEVER owned CSX2049
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  #409 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:27 AM
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Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.
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  #410 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:35 AM
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It was stated earlier in this thread that in later races, the car was entered by Paul Cunningham, and that he was shown as both driver and entrant. The Registry stated, based on an article in Competition Press from 1963, that 2049 was entered in the LA Times Grand Prix at Riverside in 10/63 by Muth Ford, with Cunningham shown as the driver. That notion was disputed. Yet here are photos from the pits at that race showing 2049 as #37, Cunningham's number, with "Muth Ford - Rialto" clearly lettered on the front fender. Pictures aren't the best, but one can see the Cobra in both shots sitting next to King Cobras:
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  #411 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.
Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/PaulCunningham.html
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Last edited by Buzz; 12-01-2021 at 10:42 AM..
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  #412 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.
Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19
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  #413 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompClassics View Post
Taken directly from court documents, and we know this is absolutely NOT TRUE....
To John at Comp Classics: We are aware that you have a beef with the current ownership of 2049. But this thread deals with the early ownership, specifically relating to Paul Cunningham as a hired driver or possible owner. Maybe you could start up the new thread dealing with why you believe the CA ownership of CSX 2049 should be reviewed?
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham
Sorry Buzz, I was replying to Ned, I should have quoted him. I was interested in the Newpaper article that Ned had quoted.
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:23 AM
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No problemo.
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
To John at Comp Classics: We are aware that you have a beef with the current ownership of 2049. But this thread deals with the early ownership, specifically relating to Paul Cunningham as a hired driver or possible owner. Maybe you could start up the new thread dealing with why you believe the CA ownership of CSX 2049 should be reviewed?
Michael seems to have multiple agendas for this thread, one of which seems to agree with John here. I think Michael and John would both like to say that CSX 2049 effective no longer exists except for a title. And, however unlikely the possibility, Michael seems to think that the Hasselrig title may have been created from forged paperwork.

So I think John's comments seem relevant to this messy thread. After all the only point I see with Michael wanting to see the court papers is discredit whatever remaining parts that Hasselrig claims to have been from CSX 2049 or to discredit the title. I don't think the court documents can show that Paul owned the car.
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:34 AM
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Default Cunningham

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
Following up on the April Pomona races, photographer Allen Kuhn also has a shot of 2049, now with modified rear flares, running at the July Pomona races with early "kidney-bean" Halibrand wheels. It is again Ted Roberts driving, as #25a:
Looking at the two photos, I don't see any difference in the rear wheel well flares. What am I not getting?
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  #418 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham
Paul did drive others cars on a rare occasions, sometimes to shake the car down, or to assist someone in solving a setup problem, possibly to qualify a car, but never on a full time schedule like with our personal cars, namely the Sprite, the Terrible Tempest, the white Kurtis/Pontiac, and the Cobra.

The change in ownership/sponsorship/driver/entrant/etc. began post Pomona, as for a "Muth Ford" sponsorship I do not recall that ever to be the case, I will look back at a Riverside race program and photos. The Henry Ford collection has many photos of the battle during the one hour race including #37, #211, #96, and others.

It is possible that someone did a photoshop job on it.
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19
I will have to check that out later.

I suppose that Michael may now suggest that newspapers.com, a subsidiary of ancestory.com, is an elaborate hoax website created solely to supply forged newpaper articles about CSX2049?
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  #420 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2021, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Looking at the two photos, I don't see any difference in the rear wheel well flares. What am I not getting?
I thought the same thing.
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