Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[Buzz]

Good info, Ned - and to put another cap on the original issue, here is an article that quotes the OP here in his own words describing his stepfather's racing career up to his tragic death:
PaulCunningham

He discusses Cunningham driving several cars owned by others, but it is this paragraph - in his own words - where he makes reference to the Cobra that puts this whole ownership issue to bed:

He drove many different cars over his shortened career, Sprite, AH 100, the 'Terrible Tempest', several Devins including the mystery car #37, the Kurtis-Pontiac #37, a private owned Ford Cobra (Campaigned against the team Cobra's) and I'm sure there were others I can't remember due to my higher interest in girls during that era.

Clearly, there's been a change in the OP, Michael Heinecke's recollection of events, but it looks like we can safely (and a bit sadly, I have to admit) conclude that Paul Cunningham NEVER owned CSX2049

[1ntCobra]

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/PaulCunningham.html

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham

Sorry Buzz, I was replying to Ned, I should have quoted him. I was interested in the Newpaper article that Ned had quoted.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham

Paul did drive others cars on a rare occasions, sometimes to shake the car down, or to assist someone in solving a setup problem, possibly to qualify a car, but never on a full time schedule like with our personal cars, namely the Sprite, the Terrible Tempest, the white Kurtis/Pontiac, and the Cobra.

The change in ownership/sponsorship/driver/entrant/etc. began post Pomona, as for a "Muth Ford" sponsorship I do not recall that ever to be the case, I will look back at a Riverside race program and photos. The Henry Ford collection has many photos of the battle during the one hour race including #37, #211, #96, and others.

It is possible that someone did a photoshop job on it.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Paul did drive others cars on a rare occasions, sometimes to shake the car down, or to assist someone in solving a setup problem, possibly to qualify a car, but never on a full time schedule like with our personal cars, namely the Sprite, the Terrible Tempest, the white Kurtis/Pontiac, and the Cobra.

The change in ownership/sponsorship/driver/entrant/etc. began post Pomona, as for a "Muth Ford" sponsorship I do not recall that ever to be the case, I will look back at a Riverside race program and photos. The Henry Ford collection has many photos of the battle during the one hour race including #37, #211, #96, and others.

It is possible that someone did a photoshop job on it.

Hi Michael - the question I have is why in the article I linked did you refer to the Cobra in your own words as "a privately owned Ford Cobra" when you named the cars that Paul drove? That certainly doesn't sound like you believed it was his own car.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Michael - the question I have is why in the article I linked did you refer to the Cobra in your own words as "a privately owned Ford Cobra" when you named the cars that Paul drove? That certainly doesn't sound like you believed it was his own car.

Quite simple Watson, Cunningham is the private owner!

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19

I will have to check that out later.

I suppose that Michael may now suggest that newspapers.com, a subsidiary of ancestory.com, is an elaborate hoax website created solely to supply forged newpaper articles about CSX2049?

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I will have to check that out later.

I suppose that Michael may now suggest that newspapers.com, a subsidiary of ancestory.com, is an elaborate hoax website created solely to supply forged newpaper articles about CSX2049?

Why the open animosity?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Why the open animosity?

I at least put a smiley on some of my sceptical statements.

I go back and forth on which way I think about this and I have proposed scenarios that could have your father owning the car that fit in with the paperwork we have seen. It seems that if there is anything that contradicts your memories that you tend to think that a forgery or a hoax is involved. You seem quick to suggest that Muth Ford could be photoshopped on those pictures if it does not fit your memory, so if there is a newspaper article that contradicts your memories, would you think the newspaper article is some sort of hoax as well?

I may check out the newspapers.com site, but it looks like I have to sign up for a free trial to do so. I get enough junk email already without signing up for a free trial to some website.

So if there is a newspaper article from April of 1963 that says that CSX2049 was Al Abidin's car, would that contradict your memory of the situation? It seems that you don't think the Abidin family ever had anything to do with the car. Is it possible that you father purchased the car from the Abidin family sometime between April and August of 1963? At what date in 1963 do you think your father acquired the car? Would that date contradict the April 1963 newspaper article or not?

[Nedsel]

It was stated earlier in this thread that in later races, the car was entered by Paul Cunningham, and that he was shown as both driver and entrant. The Registry stated, based on an article in Competition Press from 1963, that 2049 was entered in the LA Times Grand Prix at Riverside in 10/63 by Muth Ford, with Cunningham shown as the driver. That notion was disputed. Yet here are photos from the pits at that race showing 2049 as #37, Cunningham's number, with "Muth Ford - Rialto" clearly lettered on the front fender. Pictures aren't the best, but one can see the Cobra in both shots sitting next to King Cobras:

[Buzz]

No problemo.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[twobjshelbys]

So some new info. I'd like to see the next paragraph of the court doc page.

But after all of this there is nothing that shows Paul Cunningham even remotely in any chain of custody as the owner. Driver, absolutely. Custodian? Perhaps. But no copies or any hint of any official title or other paper work that supports ownership.

I'm not sure what would change anyway.

If I was Perry Mason, I'd ask Paul Drake this... Has anyone put together a time line of the history? There may be multiple versions of this based on different claims. There will also be some overlap. The gaps and discrepancies may tell something.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

[quote=CompClassics;1500164]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

So some new info. I'd like to see the next paragraph of the court doc page.


Believe me, if you saw all the information in the court documents you be scratching your head as to why “ownership” was granted. The only reason that the court granted ownership according to the court documents was that Fran Kress was not present to contest the case.

If Fran Kress had been there, and acknowledged that his possession of the 2049 chassis remains came via theft from a CA warehouse, he would never have been granted title either.

[1ntCobra]

Before I thought it was OK to share the newspaper page, I was going to put up a legible copy of it temporarily, but then replace it with this:

[Alfa02]

Did anyone else notice that that race would be televised on Sat. A 90 min segment started @ 2;30PM ?? (Middle center) of this page. Any footage maybe ?? That's pretty cool in 1963. Cheers TommyRot.