Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[Buzz]

Out of curiosity, I decided to look up Ann Abidin to see if I could find anything online with the thought that the assumed sort of woman who would have the means and motivation to buy a new Cobra in 1963 and then give it to her son to go racing would be likely to have had at least something interesting or significant enough in her lifetime that it would remain on record.

Here's what I found in a casual search:

- No internet record of an Ann Abidin from that time period.

- Her listed address on the documents that Ned shared with us; 8041 Galena St. Riverside, Ca. shows no such person in the list of current and former owners. https://rehold.com/Riverside+CA/GALENA+ST/8041

- I did find an Albert N. Abidin (1941 - 2014) whose name and timeframe would match that of Ann's son who she reportedly gave the Cobra to listed as the early owner of 8025 Galena St. in Riverside. https://rehold.com/Riverside+CA/GALENA+ST/8025

- 8025 (along with the other houses in the area) is a relatively "humble" looking residence for a gentleman racer of a Shelby Cobra even for 1963.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/80...4d-117.4583688

- Note that Lanse Haselrig coincidentally shows 4640 Kansas Ave, Riverside, CA in Riverside as his address at the time of his purchase of the wreck from Ann..

Questions:

- Why is there no paper record of the original sale of 2049 in 1963?

- Why did Paul Cunningham's widow have an old AC Ace chassis chassis in her garage that also appears to have had the key identification sections cut out? Bearing in mind that family members testify she was given that chassis by an SAI employee. (It's also been noted here that Carol Connors had a wrecked Ace which may have ended up at SAI.)

- Could she have attempted to regain possession of her husband's Cobra chassis and been handed this fake by "someone at SAI", either in error or in order to appease her after the original chassis had already been sold/parted out?

- Why would anyone go to great lengths to buy a totalled wreck of a Cobra back in 1964 or 1967?

- Why is Cunningham repeatedly and overwhelmingly shown as both entrant and driver in all of the race records I have found online? No mention whatsoever of any Ann or Albert Abidin.

My own wild speculation :

Something is seriously missing/suspect about the currently accepted early ownership history of CSX2049 and based on USC_COWBOY's candid and sincere testimonials (including sharing the undoubtably disappointing reply from AC about the Ace chassis), I tend to believe that there may well be some real substance to his assertion that Paul Cunningham did indeed own the car. I could be wrong though, but I'm definitely not otherwise convinced.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Hi, Michael - I hope you will allow me to tackle your questions roughly in order.

For the various races you mention, I took the car numbers and race results from whichever copy of the fun old publication "Competition Press," later called "Autoweek," they would have been in. My thinking is that a race program would have been submitted to the printers a few days ahead of any race, and perhaps not all the entries that eventually showed up were listed. Did they get it right? We will likely never know at this point. Sadly, I threw out all my old copies of the paper in a move many years ago.

Regarding the Times GP where Muth Ford was shown as a sponsor instead of Powerine Fuel: is is possible that may have been more than one sponsor, and they listed one over another? I can't say if the data is correct or incorrect at this point, but it is whatever was shown in the race summary after the event. Ditto for the next event you mention, where I suspect you want to say Powerine Fuel vs. Powerine Oil. In spite of which sponsor may have been listed, I'm not sure it carries too much relevance given the larger picture of where things are today.

Regarding the modifications said to have been made to 2049 at Shelby American, we have no paperwork on these. What was listed was how the car was prepared based on photographs taken at the events as well as how the car was equipped when it was crashed. It is my understanding that Al or Ann Abiden explained to Lanse Hasselrig when they were discussing his purchase of the wrecked car that the modifications had been performed at Shelby American. I would very much like to have a copy of that invoice, as it would likely show the owner as the party to be billed for the work, but it was not in the files we recovered.

I am appending a copy of the letter in the files from Ken Grindley, the Shelby American controller, to Phil Curry regarding a mechanic's lien. I have no idea who Curry is nor why the letter was directed to him. And it is unfortunate that the original letter with the Shelby American logo was sent out and all that was in the files is a copy, but it's better than nothing. Too bad that once again, there is no mention of an owner.

Does this mean that Phil H Curry was a director for California Cartage Company at that address?

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

And what is California Cartage Company?

https://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...MenuKey=events

And what is Cartage and Drayage anyway:

https://www.asianausa.com/cartage-drayage-services/

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Out of curiosity, I decided to look up Ann Abidin to see if I could find anything online with the thought that the assumed sort of woman who would have the means and motivation to buy a new Cobra in 1963 and then give it to her son to go racing would be likely to have had at least something interesting or significant enough in her lifetime that it would remain on record.

Here's what I found in a casual search:

- No internet record of an Ann Abidin from that time period.

- Her listed address on the documents that Ned shared with us; 8041 Galena St. Riverside, Ca. shows no such person in the list of current and former owners. https://rehold.com/Riverside+CA/GALENA+ST/8041

- I did find an Albert N. Abidin (1941 - 2014) whose name and timeframe would match that of Ann's son who she reportedly gave the Cobra to listed as the early owner of 8025 Galena St. in Riverside. https://rehold.com/Riverside+CA/GALENA+ST/8025

- 8025 (along with the other houses in the area) is a relatively "humble" looking residence for a gentleman racer of a Shelby Cobra even for 1963.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/80...4d-117.4583688

- Note that Lanse Haselrig coincidentally shows 4640 Kansas Ave, Riverside, CA in Riverside as his address at the time of his purchase of the wreck from Ann..

Questions:

- Why is there no paper record of the original sale of 2049 in 1963?

- Why did Paul Cunningham's widow have an old AC Ace chassis chassis in her garage that also appears to have had the key identification sections cut out? Bearing in mind that family members testify she was given that chassis by an SAI employee. (It's also been noted here that Carol Connors had a wrecked Ace which may have ended up at SAI.)

- Could she have attempted to regain possession of her husband's Cobra chassis and been handed this fake by "someone at SAI", either in error or in order to appease her after the original chassis had already been sold/parted out?

- Why would anyone go to great lengths to buy a totalled wreck of a Cobra back in 1964 or 1967?

- Why is Cunningham repeatedly and overwhelmingly shown as both entrant and driver in all of the race records I have found online? No mention whatsoever of any Ann or Albert Abidin.

My own wild speculation :

Something is seriously missing/suspect about the currently accepted early ownership history of CSX2049 and based on USC_COWBOY's candid and sincere testimonials (including sharing the undoubtably disappointing reply from AC about the Ace chassis), I tend to believe that there may well be some real substance to his assertion that Paul Cunningham did indeed own the car. I could be wrong though, but I'm definitely not otherwise convinced.

This is exactly what I've been trying to get across to Ned and others. There is something very wrong with the history as presented in the Registry. Perhaps, this forum will finally expose the imposters.

[Nedsel]

As I have said previously, we rely on documentation to provide history on these cars, rather than memories. Which is not to say Michael's are incorrect; it's to say a Bill of Sale or other proof of Paul Cunningham's purchase of 2049 would be welcome.

I would also reiterate that photos don't generally lie. Lanse Haselrig provided photos of CSX 2049 after the fatal wreck with a date of 4/67 on them and has told us that is the point at which he bought the wreck from its original owner, Ann Abiden. He paid for the car for a period of several months, not years, and put it into storage when he was shipped off to Vietnam with the Army. He had no idea the chassis had been illegally sold out of the storage facility years later until a second title appeared in another state. At that time he partnered with a friend to reinforce his ownership with the state of CA. Whatever evidence they supplied was apparently solid, as they prevailed.

I note that CompClassics provided photos of what clearly appears to be the wrecked chassis of 2049 (see post #5) and would like to ask, who supplied these to you? It is obvious that someone had possession of the wrecked chassis after the shots that were taken in 4/67, and I would like to know who that was. I think those photos speak volumes.

[USC_COWBOY]

It has been stated previously that SAAC has the most complete history of the Cobras manufactured by SAI, having access to files, boxes of records and paperwork, invoices, factory work orders, rebuild documents. Registry Staff to have actually visited the shops wherein the Cobras were rebuilt/restored, etc.

In fact, anyone just perusing the Registry would believe the histories are true and to be believed by the numerous enthusiasts of the marque.

The wording is strong, inclusive, and at least insinuated to be backed up by documentation, proof that the histories are factual. The truth is just the opposite, the narratives are promotional in nature and surely meant to bolster histories and driver involvements with a specific chassis. For instance…

CSX2049 arrives at SAI November 13, 1962, sold to Downtown Ford on January 26, 1963, Sold to Ann Abidin in February 1963, Ann Abidin gifts the car to her son Albert Abidin, Albert Abidin sends the street Cobra to SAI for major conversion from street use to full competition status. Where is the invoicing from AC Cars to SAI? Where is the invoicing from SAI to Downtown Ford? Where is the invoicing from Downtown Ford to Ann Abidin? Where is the factory work orders for the conversion from street to full competition? This was a relatively expensive car in the early 60’s and the conversion work had to be documented as to what is to be done, how much is being charged, probably would have been subject to a substantial deposit before commencing the factory conversions. Isn’t this very convenient that all the documentation is missing?

When you look at the race history as it appears in the Leaf Spring Registry you will find 9 races listed. The first three races were Pomona 4/20-21/1963 #105 A/P driven by Ted Roberts; Cotati 5/12/1963 #300 A/P driven by Allan Grant and owned by Albert Abidin; Pomona 7/13-14/1963 #25 driven by Ted Roberts. The interesting point here is the obvious involvement with the car by Albert Abidin and shown to be the owner of CSX2049.

The next 6 races were Cotati 7/27-28/1963 #246 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; San Luis Obispo 8/17-18/1963 #37 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; Santa Barbara 9/1/1963 #37 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; Times GP Riverside 1 hour GT 10/13/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham, sponsor is Powerine Oil; Laguna Seca 10/19/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham, sponsored is Powerine Oil; Willow Springs 11/16/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; sponsor is Powerine Oil. The interesting point here is that Ann Abidin nor Albert Abidin are identified or shown anywhere as owners or entrants of CSX2049. They didn’t exist as I have stated before, they were never at our house, not at the garage where the car was race prepped, not at the prerace tech inspections, not in the pits, not at the post race banquets/awards ceremonies. This is not the actions of an involved car owner and definitely not the involvement as demonstrated previously as in the first three races in which CSX2049 was entered.

In my opinion, this is the point in time wherein the Abidins were removed from the real history of CSX2049 and to be reinserted later in the history to bolster and increase value to the car being built by Hasselrig/Wesselink. The history had to be fleshed out and established as the saleable history in the most prestigious Cobra history basis, the SAAC Registry.

There is a definite break in the ownership after the first 3 races, the history gets very foggy here due to a lack of supporting documentation, but it is compelling that during the next 6 races Paul Cunningham is the only identifiable owner. The car was wrecked on 11/16/1963 and was taken to SAI for examination. Here is the point in time that someone interested in the CSX2049 chassis must fill in the missing history elements. SAI decides to obtain a lien on the wrecked chassis in April 1964 and Albert Abidin conveniently reappears taking possession of the car placing it in storage. Ann Abidin reappears and agrees to sell Hasselrig the wrecked car for $400 under some very unconventional terms and conditions. Has anyone ever used the AAA to make installment payments for the purchase of a vehicle? In 1967, Hasselrig completes the payment plan and becomes the owner of CSX2049.

In my past, I have had many friends, some of which have influenced me in my search for the truth and provided me with the fortitude to stay active in my quest to correct the history of CSX2049 and the driving and ownership of the privately campaigned Cunningham Cobra.

I asked a detective friend of mine how he goes about determining the truth when competing stories are at hand and there can be but one truth. His simple answer was to follow the money, who benefits from the narrative. Following his advice, we have the Abidins, we have the SAAC Registry, we have Hasselrig/Wesselink, all three are key players; however, the Abidins are deceased, the SAAC Registry exists and is an asset, the Hasselrig/Wesselink car exists and is a substantial asset. The most valuable asset is the car being built by Hasselrig/Wesselink once completed it would be one of very few factory competition prepared privateer Cobras that helped SAI to attain Manufacturer status. An estimate of value could be $2-$5 million based upon several similar Cobras selling at auction.

Hasselrig/Wesselink have been involved in this chassis for nearly 50 years, and they recognized the weakness in the CSX2049 history. I was personally approached by Wesselink on Friday, May 21, 2010 11:37 PM wherein he asked me to contact him leaving his phone number and email address. This was, in my opinion, a fishing expedition to gain additional information to bolster his history and involvement in CSX2049. I declined to participate in this history building effort by Wesselink.

We know that Hasselrig/Wesselink are capable of using legal action to further their efforts in legitimizing their CSX2049 reconstruction as they won their legal action against the State of California gaining title to the chassis CSX2049. In their efforts to gain title, it has been previously pointed out that they presented false evidence related to that chassis. It appears that the State was misled, and the title was awarded to Hasselrig/Wesselink for the wrecked CSX2049 chassis in error.

A question comes to mind, “Who actually pieced the history together as it is currently published”? In addition, Who benefits most from a clean and distinct title history? Is it possible that the history was written by those who will benefit the most? What pressure might be brought upon the Registry to back the sanitized title history? Legal actions are great motivators.

And here we are, everyone is protecting their turf, preserving their image, polishing and buffing the history, and ultimately enjoying yet another financially successful Air-Car.

[Nedsel]

Michael, your allegations are certainly interesting. I note that you gloss over my request for any possible documentation showing Paul Cunningham owned CSX 2049 in favor of complaining that the SAAC Registry has not, in your opinion, provided sufficient evidence to show the car was owned by Abiden or Hasselrig. In spite of photos and paperwork. OK, we'll see what else might be out there. I have a copy of the invoice of 2049 to Downtown Ford, but it doesn't tell us anything relevant to your inquiries.

I disagree with your value guesstimates, as it has been discussed here thoroughly that the remains of 2049 are no longer attached to its legal paperwork, hence any car associated with it in the future will clearly be a reconstructed vehicle absent major original parts. That won't be worth $2-5 million. And I would point out that when Lance Hasselrig's quest to prove his ownership began, the value of these cars was nothing close to what it is today, and I dispute the idea that financial gain was the primary motivation for spending the kind of money an effort such as this would cost in legal fees, not to mention exposure via the CA court system.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

It has been stated previously that SAAC has the most complete history of the Cobras manufactured by SAI, having access to files, boxes of records and paperwork, invoices, factory work orders, rebuild documents. Registry Staff to have actually visited the shops wherein the Cobras were rebuilt/restored, etc.

In fact, anyone just perusing the Registry would believe the histories are true and to be believed by the numerous enthusiasts of the marque.

The wording is strong, inclusive, and at least insinuated to be backed up by documentation, proof that the histories are factual. The truth is just the opposite, the narratives are promotional in nature and surely meant to bolster histories and driver involvements with a specific chassis. For instance…

CSX2049 arrives at SAI November 13, 1962, sold to Downtown Ford on January 26, 1963, Sold to Ann Abidin in February 1963, Ann Abidin gifts the car to her son Albert Abidin, Albert Abidin sends the street Cobra to SAI for major conversion from street use to full competition status. Where is the invoicing from AC Cars to SAI? Where is the invoicing from SAI to Downtown Ford? Where is the invoicing from Downtown Ford to Ann Abidin? Where is the factory work orders for the conversion from street to full competition? This was a relatively expensive car in the early 60’s and the conversion work had to be documented as to what is to be done, how much is being charged, probably would have been subject to a substantial deposit before commencing the factory conversions. Isn’t this very convenient that all the documentation is missing?

When you look at the race history as it appears in the Leaf Spring Registry you will find 9 races listed. The first three races were Pomona 4/20-21/1963 #105 A/P driven by Ted Roberts; Cotati 5/12/1963 #300 A/P driven by Allan Grant and owned by Albert Abidin; Pomona 7/13-14/1963 #25 driven by Ted Roberts. The interesting point here is the obvious involvement with the car by Albert Abidin and shown to be the owner of CSX2049.

The next 6 races were Cotati 7/27-28/1963 #246 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; San Luis Obispo 8/17-18/1963 #37 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; Santa Barbara 9/1/1963 #37 A/P driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; Times GP Riverside 1 hour GT 10/13/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham, sponsor is Powerine Oil; Laguna Seca 10/19/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham, sponsored is Powerine Oil; Willow Springs 11/16/1963 #37 driven by Paul Cunningham, entrant is Paul Cunningham; sponsor is Powerine Oil. The interesting point here is that Ann Abidin nor Albert Abidin are identified or shown anywhere as owners or entrants of CSX2049. They didn’t exist as I have stated before, they were never at our house, not at the garage where the car was race prepped, not at the prerace tech inspections, not in the pits, not at the post race banquets/awards ceremonies. This is not the actions of an involved car owner and definitely not the involvement as demonstrated previously as in the first three races in which CSX2049 was entered.

In my opinion, this is the point in time wherein the Abidins were removed from the real history of CSX2049 and to be reinserted later in the history to bolster and increase value to the car being built by Hasselrig/Wesselink. The history had to be fleshed out and established as the saleable history in the most prestigious Cobra history basis, the SAAC Registry.

There is a definite break in the ownership after the first 3 races, the history gets very foggy here due to a lack of supporting documentation, but it is compelling that during the next 6 races Paul Cunningham is the only identifiable owner. The car was wrecked on 11/16/1963 and was taken to SAI for examination. Here is the point in time that someone interested in the CSX2049 chassis must fill in the missing history elements. SAI decides to obtain a lien on the wrecked chassis in April 1964 and Albert Abidin conveniently reappears taking possession of the car placing it in storage. Ann Abidin reappears and agrees to sell Hasselrig the wrecked car for $400 under some very unconventional terms and conditions. Has anyone ever used the AAA to make installment payments for the purchase of a vehicle? In 1967, Hasselrig completes the payment plan and becomes the owner of CSX2049.

In my past, I have had many friends, some of which have influenced me in my search for the truth and provided me with the fortitude to stay active in my quest to correct the history of CSX2049 and the driving and ownership of the privately campaigned Cunningham Cobra.

I asked a detective friend of mine how he goes about determining the truth when competing stories are at hand and there can be but one truth. His simple answer was to follow the money, who benefits from the narrative. Following his advice, we have the Abidins, we have the SAAC Registry, we have Hasselrig/Wesselink, all three are key players; however, the Abidins are deceased, the SAAC Registry exists and is an asset, the Hasselrig/Wesselink car exists and is a substantial asset. The most valuable asset is the car being built by Hasselrig/Wesselink once completed it would be one of very few factory competition prepared privateer Cobras that helped SAI to attain Manufacturer status. An estimate of value could be $2-$5 million based upon several similar Cobras selling at auction.

Hasselrig/Wesselink have been involved in this chassis for nearly 50 years, and they recognized the weakness in the CSX2049 history. I was personally approached by Wesselink on Friday, May 21, 2010 11:37 PM wherein he asked me to contact him leaving his phone number and email address. This was, in my opinion, a fishing expedition to gain additional information to bolster his history and involvement in CSX2049. I declined to participate in this history building effort by Wesselink.

We know that Hasselrig/Wesselink are capable of using legal action to further their efforts in legitimizing their CSX2049 reconstruction as they won their legal action against the State of California gaining title to the chassis CSX2049. In their efforts to gain title, it has been previously pointed out that they presented false evidence related to that chassis. It appears that the State was misled, and the title was awarded to Hasselrig/Wesselink for the wrecked CSX2049 chassis in error.

A question comes to mind, “Who actually pieced the history together as it is currently published”? In addition, Who benefits most from a clean and distinct title history? Is it possible that the history was written by those who will benefit the most? What pressure might be brought upon the Registry to back the sanitized title history? Legal actions are great motivators.

And here we are, everyone is protecting their turf, preserving their image, polishing and buffing the history, and ultimately enjoying yet another financially successful Air-Car.

Your estimated valuation is on the exaggerated side given the cars storied history.

That you would even post such a thing in this thread goes back to an early post of mine from some time ago, not really pointed at you, or about you, where I state "Greed makes good people do bad things".

I'll wish you well and leave it at that

Bill S.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Michael, your allegations are certainly interesting. I note that you gloss over my request for any possible documentation showing Paul Cunningham owned CSX 2049 in favor of complaining that the SAAC Registry has not, in your opinion, provided sufficient evidence to show the car was owned by Abiden or Hasselrig. In spite of photos and paperwork. OK, we'll see what else might be out there. I have a copy of the invoice of 2049 to Downtown Ford, but it doesn't tell us anything relevant to your inquiries.

I disagree with your value guesstimates, as it has been discussed here thoroughly that the remains of 2049 are no longer attached to its legal paperwork, hence any car associated with it in the future will clearly be a reconstructed vehicle absent major original parts. That won't be worth $2-5 million. And I would point out that when Lance Hasselrig's quest to prove his ownership began, the value of these cars was nothing close to what it is today, and I dispute the idea that financial gain was the primary motivation for spending the kind of money an effort such as this would cost in legal fees, not to mention exposure via the CA court system.

Ned, I have not glossed over your request, I thought that I previously stated that all of my families race car and related information was lost by the moving company that moved my mother and sister to and from Illinois just after Paul's death. I have nothing from the 1963 or before era, all of Paul's racing stuff was lost. The documents and what little memoribilia that I have now came from my long quest that began in 2003 or so. I even was able to track down the people responsible for the liquidation of the Powerine Oil Company and their records and salvaged materials from them relating to the Cobra and Paul.

My quest continues, I want for the record to be correct and truthful, that's the best I can do in remembrance of Paul Cunningham.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Michael, your allegations are certainly interesting. I note that you gloss over my request for any possible documentation showing Paul Cunningham owned CSX 2049 in favor of complaining that the SAAC Registry has not, in your opinion, provided sufficient evidence to show the car was owned by Abiden or Hasselrig. In spite of photos and paperwork. OK, we'll see what else might be out there. I have a copy of the invoice of 2049 to Downtown Ford, but it doesn't tell us anything relevant to your inquiries.

I disagree with your value guesstimates, as it has been discussed here thoroughly that the remains of 2049 are no longer attached to its legal paperwork, hence any car associated with it in the future will clearly be a reconstructed vehicle absent major original parts. That won't be worth $2-5 million. And I would point out that when Lance Hasselrig's quest to prove his ownership began, the value of these cars was nothing close to what it is today, and I dispute the idea that financial gain was the primary motivation for spending the kind of money an effort such as this would cost in legal fees, not to mention exposure via the CA court system.

My guesstimate of $2-$5 million I believe would be a legitimate value for a very early factory competition prepared Mark II Cobra, it would require the reacquiring the actual remaining CSX2049 parts and pieces, incorporation of the actual parts and pieces in a correct frame with an aluminum body, paint, stripes, etc. it would probably require me, as the only living family member, to provide a sworn affidavit as to the authenticity and file all related information with the California DMV to obtain a correct title.

Then and only then would my guesstimate be relevant.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Does this mean that Phil H Curry was a director for California Cartage Company at that address?

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

And what is California Cartage Company?

https://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...MenuKey=events

And what is Cartage and Drayage anyway:

https://www.asianausa.com/cartage-drayage-services/

The Cartage/Drayage thing seems to be related to international cargo shipments, warehousing and delivery. At first I was thinking that maybe Shelby American had Mr Curry store the car in a warehouse and was tired of paying for him for the storage of the car. But reading the letter again, Shelby American had the wrecked car in their possession.

So why send information from the Department of Motor Vehicles, the bank, the legal owner and wanting to get a mechanics lien to Mr Curry? Maybe with international shipping business angle, they wanted Mr Curry to ship the wreck back to AC cars? That seems highly unlikely. It seems more likely Mr Curry might be familiar with how to fill out the paperwork to get a mechanics lien on a wrecked car that Shelby American considers abandoned at their shop for several months. The letter says that Shelby American knows who the legal owner is. The car has been in their possession for months. It seems logical knowing who the legal owner is, to just ask the legal owner to come and pick up the wreck. Asking the legal owner to pick up the car is both easy and FREE. Getting a mechanics lien involves time and money. Perhaps they had contacted the legal owner on multiple occassions and for whatever reason, the legal owner is not responding, or the legal owner told Shelby American that they don't want or need the wreck back.

Reading the letter, I can see 2 possiblities for contacting Mr Curry:
1) They want Mr Curry to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien.
2) They are getting someone else to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien, but when they have the lien, they want Mr Curry to do something with the wreck.

In any case, it seems the wheels were in motion for Shelby American to get a mechanics lien on the wrecked car. The end result of which would be for Shelby American to take ownership of the car by getting their own title to the car. Shelby American intended to get a title to a wrecked car that seems to be abandoned at their shop.

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

The Cartage/Drayage thing seems to be related to international cargo shipments, warehousing and delivery. At first I was thinking that maybe Shelby American had Mr Curry store the car in a warehouse and was tired of paying for him for the storage of the car. But reading the letter again, Shelby American had the wrecked car in their possession.

So why send information from the Department of Motor Vehicles, the bank, the legal owner and wanting to get a mechanics lien to Mr Curry? Maybe with international shipping business angle, they wanted Mr Curry to ship the wreck back to AC cars? That seems highly unlikely. It seems more likely Mr Curry might be familiar with how to fill out the paperwork to get a mechanics lien on a wrecked car that Shelby American considers abandoned at their shop for several months. The letter says that Shelby American knows who the legal owner is. The car has been in their possession for months. It seems logical knowing who the legal owner is, to just ask the legal owner to come and pick up the wreck. Asking the legal owner to pick up the car is both easy and FREE. Getting a mechanics lien involves time and money. Perhaps they had contacted the legal owner on multiple occassions and for whatever reason, the legal owner is not responding, or the legal owner told Shelby American that they don't want or need the wreck back.

Reading the letter, I can see 2 possiblities for contacting Mr Curry:
1) They want Mr Curry to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien.
2) They are getting someone else to fill out the paperwork to get the mechanics lien, but when they have the lien, they want Mr Curry to do something with the wreck.

In any case, it seems the wheels were in motion for Shelby American to get a mechanics lien on the wrecked car. The end result of which would be for Shelby American to take ownership of the car by getting their own title to the car. Shelby American intended to get a title to a wrecked car that seems to be abandoned at their shop.

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

The Cunningham family was never contacted by Shelby regarding the lien process and therefore we were never able to recover the wreck.

Upon Paul's death, my mom was unconsolable and I became the dominant male in the household at 19 years of age. Several month's later she and my sister moved back to Illinois to be near her mom and dad.

[twobjshelbys]

You try to make it sound like Shelby did something sinister. They did what is normal practice in the auto repair industry. If Shelby had a pile of parts, and that is iffy, and assuming the owner was contacted about removing them, then the only way to legally dispose of them is to declare them abandoned and get a mechanics lien title. It's done frequently by auto repair shops that get abandoned vehicles.

It's a clever move. I've got a car that is beyond repair. I took it to the shop to get it fixed. Repairs are $2K for a new engine or $300 to dispose of it at the junk yard. So I just leave it at the repair shop. Eventually repair shop will get tired of it sitting there, lien it, and eventually he'll have to pay the $300.

I still don't understand your motivation. You keep saying that you just want the history recorded, yet you keep circling back on making an air car out of some pile of parts somewhere. (Else why would you be so interested in a projected value? It's value today is scrap.) The Cobra community is too wise now to believe that if 2049 magically appears next week that it isn't highly suspicious.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It's a clever move. I've got a car that is beyond repair. I took it to the shop to get it fixed. Repairs are $2K for a new engine or $300 to dispose of it at the junk yard. So I just leave it at the repair shop. Eventually repair shop will get tired of it sitting there, lien it, and eventually he'll have to pay the $300.

This is 100% accurate. when I had my bodyshop, I got stuck with dozens of cars like this. After the first two dozen, I got smart enough to not allow them to collect their belongings from the storage part of my yard without delivery of title. In other cases, I was smart enough to ask what they wanted for it, buy it, await title, then sell it off for a small profit.

Bill S.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

You try to make it sound like Shelby did something sinister. They did what is normal practice in the auto repair industry. If Shelby had a pile of parts, and that is iffy, and assuming the owner was contacted about removing them, then the only way to legally dispose of them is to declare them abandoned and get a mechanics lien title. It's done frequently by auto repair shops that get abandoned vehicles.

It's a clever move. I've got a car that is beyond repair. I took it to the shop to get it fixed. Repairs are $2K for a new engine or $300 to dispose of it at the junk yard. So I just leave it at the repair shop. Eventually repair shop will get tired of it sitting there, lien it, and eventually he'll have to pay the $300.

I still don't understand your motivation. You keep saying that you just want the history recorded, yet you keep circling back on making an air car out of some pile of parts somewhere. (Else why would you be so interested in a projected value? It's value today is scrap.) The Cobra community is too wise now to believe that if 2049 magically appears next week that it isn't highly suspicious.

You don't have to pay to dispose of a car at a junk yard. The junk yard will pay you even if they have to send a tow truck to get it. It seems the going rate for a beater with more than 200k miles on it is about $400. I know I got $400 earlier in the year for an old Altima that my son got as a hand me down from my father. My son crashed it into a divider wall getting off an exit of the PA turnpike. It was sort of drivable, so I managed to drive it several miles to my parent's house. I arranged for a company I found on the internet to get the car. They paid cash to my parents. Actually they accepted the car without the title in hand too because it was obviously beyond repair. I may have later just scanned a copy of the title and emailed it to them.

About 6 years ago, my Civic died with 283K miles on it. I had it towed to my local shop by AAA. The shop said the crankshaft pulley key had failed wrecking the crankshaft. I dropped off the title at my local shop, called a place to pick it up the car for junk. I think I got between $200 and $300 back then, but that was 6 years ago.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

You don't have to pay to dispose of a car at a junk yard. The junk yard will pay you even if they have to send a tow truck to get it.

Yes, and no, the junkyard cannot legally take the car and actually use it for parts, or crush it for scrap without the title. Sure it can be towed to a storage lot, either at the junkyard or elsewhere, where it will accrue "storage fees" (some months, I made more on storage fees than I did on the actual repair of a vehicle) but there it will sit collecting dust until legal ownership is obtained.

Bill S.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

but there it will sit collecting dust until legal ownership is obtained.

Bill S.

Which in the absence of a cooperating owner is accomplished with a mechanics lien.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Which in the absence of a cooperating owner is accomplished with a mechanics lien.

100% correct

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

You try to make it sound like Shelby did something sinister. They did what is normal practice in the auto repair industry. If Shelby had a pile of parts, and that is iffy, and assuming the owner was contacted about removing them, then the only way to legally dispose of them is to declare them abandoned and get a mechanics lien title. It's done frequently by auto repair shops that get abandoned vehicles.

It's a clever move. I've got a car that is beyond repair. I took it to the shop to get it fixed. Repairs are $2K for a new engine or $300 to dispose of it at the junk yard. So I just leave it at the repair shop. Eventually repair shop will get tired of it sitting there, lien it, and eventually he'll have to pay the $300.

I still don't understand your motivation. You keep saying that you just want the history recorded, yet you keep circling back on making an air car out of some pile of parts somewhere. (Else why would you be so interested in a projected value? It's value today is scrap.) The Cobra community is too wise now to believe that if 2049 magically appears next week that it isn't highly suspicious.

The point being that the Cunningham family was never notified or alerted by SAI that they were done with their post wreck examination of the car. We obviously were entitled to get the car back. Where is the correspondence? Where is the notice of sale? Where is the SAI report on the wrecked car findings? I want the records to be correct, I want the ownership corrected and the proper history attached to Paul's involvement with CSX2049.
Everyone else in this discussion gets a pass and can hide behind their lack of proof/evidence; but the sole surviving family member is castigated for wanting the truth. Talk about circling the wagons.

I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning and please take note of what evidentiary documentation is conveniently missing. Look at how the same players keep showing up with their questionable actions involving not only CSX2049 but several other wrecked Cobras. Sure seems to me that there is an adopted process/recipe for resurrecting wrecked Cobras under very suspicious circumstances.

I hope others on this CC forum will chime in with their own stories of resurrected Cobras under suspicious circumstances, this chassis is far from being the only one.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

I hope others on this CC forum will chime in with their own stories of resurrected Cobras under suspicious circumstances, this chassis is far from being the only one.

Dang, I'm rooting for you. A 77 year old man that wants to solve a decades old family mystery before he dies. I get it; we all get it. But you're marching uphill against turf, control, transparency and ego (and I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular). The majority of us on this forum are all men in their 60's and 70's, so we do indeed get it. I think we're all rooting for you. Most of us, that is.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

So whoever legally owned the wreck, whether that was Paul Cunningham, Ann or somebody else, they were going to no longer own the car, so that Shelby could get rid of it. Perhaps Shelby American got the mechanics lien and then got the title to the car and then took it to a junk yard got a few bucks for their trouble. Who knows, maybe Ann Abidin owned a junk yard and Shelby sold the wreck to her, then a few years later Lanse sees the wreck in the junk yard and buys it from Ann. And perhaps Ann makes up a story about the wreck when she sells it to Lanse. Or perhaps Lanse misunderstood Ann and thinks she originally owned the car when she did not.

Anyway if Shelby American eventually got the mechanics lien and even if Paul Cunningham was the legal owner at the time of the crash, it is possible that the Cunningham family has not owned the wreck since 1964 when Shelby American took over ownership and got the title for CSX2049. It is also possible that Shelby sold the wreck to a junk yard or to someone else, who eventually sold it to Ann Abidin who later sold it to Lanse. Lanse could very well be the legitimate "title owner" and not an "imposter".

However as CompClassics has pointed out, Lanse may not have originally intended to restore the wreck and simply parted it out. And only many years later realized that he still had the title and then claimed that his intention was to restore the car.

Interesting speculation, which is mostly what this entire thread is based upon. However, a notarized affidavit exists from Howard Bennett, manager of the building where 2049 was stored, stating that he sold the remains of a car which he knew belonged to one Lanse Haselrig, thinking the bent frame pieces were junk, circa 1977. This is what was eventually sold to Fran Kress and became the basis for the 2049 car that is now in Europe. This is yet another document attesting to Haselrig's ownership of the car, which some of the people continuing to ***** about his non-involvement are aware of. And an owner who has his property stolen from him is legally entitled to take corrective action. Since we can't impose our laws on Europe to regain possession of any original frame pieces used in the build, the alternative is the one the CA courts have already granted, which is to build a new car using the 2049 VIN.