Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

If I had that information, I would likely share it. But it's not in the material I have.

Please post what you know, open up the discussion, I did that regarding my frame pieces and posted the results of my inquiry from AC Cars, even though it didn't help my cause.

I say again, why not be in front of the discussion rather than having someone with less status than you bringing it to light, for all to see?

BTW, I would gladly piss up a rope if it would help this investigative discussion.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Please post what you know, open up the discussion, I did that regarding my frame pieces and posted the results of my inquiry from AC Cars, even though it didn't help my cause.

I say again, why not be in front of the discussion rather than having someone with less status than you bringing it to light, for all to see?

BTW, I would gladly piss up a rope if it would help this investigative discussion.

I'm done beating around the bush.

What are you trying to accomplish?

State it in three sentences or less.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I'm done beating around the bush.

What are you trying to accomplish?

State it in three sentences or less.

How about in three words?

Correct the history!

[1985 CCX]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

How about in three words?

Correct the history!

No disrespect........
Didnt the corrections already happen?

Mile high review:
CSX2049 was wrecked in the 60's, the car was pulled apart and the 1/2 of frame used to reconstruct the current car now in the UK after it was passed along for no doubt $$ only as it was loosy goosy in those days. It does not have the CSX2049 title thus a reconstruction however gorgeous car.

The car in CA was passed through the court system (Lawyers) awarding title on paper to the current owner. The frame once thought a Cobra frame was a 427 frame in the courts and an AC Ace frame in later depictions thought to be of historical value and legend.

CSX2049 is no longer, its taken into the wind by fate and only exists in pictures and stories alone.

That sum it up? Phew!

So much easier to live with a tribute, replica, reincarnation, reconstruction, kit car, custom .......

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

No disrespect........
Didnt the corrections already happen?

Mile high review:
CSX2049 was wrecked in the 60's, the car was pulled apart and the 1/2 of frame used to reconstruct the current car now in the UK after it was passed along for no doubt $$ only as it was loosy goosy in those days. It does not have the CSX2049 title thus a reconstruction however gorgeous car.

The car in CA was passed through the court system (Lawyers) awarding title on paper to the current owner. The frame once thought a Cobra frame was a 427 frame in the courts and an AC Ace frame in later depictions thought to be of historical value and legend.

CSX2049 is no longer, its taken into the wind by fate and only exists in pictures and stories alone.

That sum it up? Phew!

So much easier to live with a tribute, replica, reincarnation, reconstruction, kit car, custom .......

Yes. I think so. And the wagons have circled probably at least three times. No new information. But he did say in one of the first replies that he had remnants of a frame and was looking for someone to help build an air car. It feels like this is all about trying to dredge up something that will add legitimacy to that above the others that already exist (My air car is better than yours.) For the experts, this seems like baiting and expect to get subpoenaed for a deposition or court appearance. Personally, I'd stay away from adding any more info to this.

I'll add that the latest round of "Shelby must have notified my mom of the lien on the car because my dad owned it and the records were lost in a move". Of course, the alternate, and most likely event, is Shelby notified the owner [from the best info available at the time]. And the mom wasn't it.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

No disrespect........
Didnt the corrections already happen?

Mile high review:
CSX2049 was wrecked in the 60's, the car was pulled apart and the 1/2 of frame used to reconstruct the current car now in the UK after it was passed along for no doubt $$ only as it was loosy goosy in those days. It does not have the CSX2049 title thus a reconstruction however gorgeous car.

The car in CA was passed through the court system (Lawyers) awarding title on paper to the current owner. The frame once thought a Cobra frame was a 427 frame in the courts and an AC Ace frame in later depictions thought to be of historical value and legend.

CSX2049 is no longer, its taken into the wind by fate and only exists in pictures and stories alone.

That sum it up? Phew!

So much easier to live with a tribute, replica, reincarnation, reconstruction, kit car, custom .......

Not so, there is a serious problem with the chain of title, I am awaiting the receipt of the court documents so that I can speak to fact, not hope, I have said all along that I believe that Ann Abidin story is fabricated, yes people have shown paperwork but there are great forgers out there and when you are dealing in multimillion dollar automobiles it has all been tried before, IMO, the story is not over.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Not so, there is a serious problem with the chain of title, I am awaiting the receipt of the court documents so that I can speak to fact, not hope, I have said all along that I believe that Ann Abidin story is fabricated, yes people have shown paperwork but there are great forgers out there and when you are dealing in multimillion dollar automobiles it has all been tried before, IMO, the story is not over.

Paperwork shown by Ned is "vintage", long before todays modern technology was even on the drawing board to be invented and mass produced. In addition, 2049 in "concours" condition, would not be a "multimillion dollar automobile", on this you have been mislead by "Mr C". You paid him for a story, and since you have yet to post a copy of his report, a story is all you have. Given his reputation for twisting history to suit his own narrative, anything he gave you is suspect from the onset.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving

Bill S.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

..., the story is not over.

Yes it is. It's not yours. Never was.

That horse left the barn.

The water is under the bridge.

Good luck though. The only ones that are going to make out in your assertion are the lawyers.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Not so, there is a serious problem with the chain of title, I am awaiting the receipt of the court documents so that I can speak to fact, not hope, I have said all along that I believe that Ann Abidin story is fabricated, yes people have shown paperwork but there are great forgers out there and when you are dealing in multimillion dollar automobiles it has all been tried before, IMO, the story is not over.

Michael,

Even if you get all of the court papers, the only thing that might be accomplished from that is you could point out that pictures of parts don't match up with CSX2049. And that the car in California is essentially a replica being attached to a title.

I don't think there will be anything in the court papers that could support your conspiracy theory of forged paperwork. And the only evidence of forged paperwork seems to be something that you imagined in your head as a theoretical explanation for what you think in happened back in 1963.

Like I said earlier, it is possible that your father owned the car in August before the crash and Shelby sent the car to the junkyard and the Abidin family purchased the wreck from the junkyard. That sound like a much more plausible theoretical possibility than forged paperwork.

Another possibility is that the Abidin family always owned the car and your father just drove it. Does it matter if you never saw Ann Abidin at the race track in the pits, etc.?

It seems to me that you want to prove that your father owned the car as a first priority (and as a secondary priority you would like to point out that the California car is merely a replica being attached to a title).

If you want to address the first priority it seems that looking at the court papers will get you absolutely nothing. If you want to address the first priority, I think your only possible chance at this point is to see if there is any living Shebly employee that remembers anything about the wreck of CSX2049 sitting around the shop for 4 or more months. I suggested that before. So why not pursue that instead of the court papers? I have got an idea. Here's a lead for you: https://bre2.net/ There's a phone number. Maybe if you are nice when you call, they will let you talk to Pete Brock. Maybe Pete remembers the wreck. Maybe he doesn't, but he knows another former employee who might remember something. Perhaps someone will remember having to constantly try to contact the Cunningham family to pick up the wreck? Or maybe someone will remember having to constantly try to contact the Abidin family to pick up the wreck? Or maybe nobody alive remembers anything.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Please post what you know, open up the discussion, I did that regarding my frame pieces and posted the results of my inquiry from AC Cars, even though it didn't help my cause.

I say again, why not be in front of the discussion rather than having someone with less status than you bringing it to light, for all to see?

BTW, I would gladly piss up a rope if it would help this investigative discussion.

I have posted what we know about CSX 2049 in both the SAAC printed and Cobra Experience online Registries, and have provided snapshots here. The details you demand to know about have nothing to do with CSX 2049 relative to its legitimate ownership back in the '60s, which is the crux of the issue being discussed in this thread. Rather, the 1992 legal papers you want to see relate to the theft of the 2049 chassis from a warehouse in Long Beach in the late '70s. Until or unless you can offer valid evidence to show that Cunningham's ownership of the car was violated prior to this theft, I am not aware how this particular case is in any way relevant to your cause.